DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20
The DeLorme PN-20 represents a new breed of GPS devices. I’ve been waiting a long time for a GPS device to show me not only a map with my current position, but show my position on aerial photography and satellite imagery. Think of this new type of GPS as having Google Earth, GPS enabled, in your pocket.
Physical
Opening the box, here is what comes with the PN-20. The device itself is nice and small, weighing just over five ounces. If you were to compare the size to the 60CSx you will find it is a similar size. It is a little thicker, not quite as tall, and about the same width. It is very light making it easy to travel with.
You also get a USB cable, two AA batteries, a lanyard, printed user manual, and a copy of Topo USA version 6.0. Inside the Topo USA product is a coupon good for 400 sq. km of aerial data packets (ADP) which is where the aerial photography and satellite imagery comes from. The lanyard is too short to allow you to use the device when wearing the lanyard.
The outer skin of the PN-20 is a rubberized material which makes the device easy to handle and waterproof. I sunk my PN-20 for about ten minutes then opened the battery case and found no evidence of any water getting in. The buttons are tall enough and stiff enough that they can be used with a medium weight set of gloves.
Inside the battery compartment is a secret slot where the SD card goes in. In my tests the battery compartment is quite waterproof as advertised and I didn’t have any trouble after submerging my PN-20 in water.
Screen
Upon starting up the device the first thing I noticed was that the screen is very bright. The screen is a similar overall size to that of other handheld GPS devices with a resolution of 176×220 pixels. I didn’t have any trouble viewing the display in bright sunlight conditions.
After turning on the DeLorme PN20 the initial fix took only about ninety seconds. Subsequent signal acquisitions have taken only a few seconds. Not too bad at all for a 12 channel receiver (STMicroelectronics) although you won’t likely get any fix indoors. The receiver is WAAS enabled. Like normal satellite views the height of the bar indicates the relative strength of the signal from that satellite. The color of the bars will change based on other information from the satellite. If the bar is red, information from that satellite is being received, but not yet used. Green means that satellite is being tracked and data is being used. Blue means the satellite is being tracked, data is being used, and WAAS correction information is being received from that satellite. You can also disable the GPS reception to save on battery life while setting up your trip on the device.
Map Display
The map page is where all of the action happens on this GPS. You can choose if you want to view Aerial Photography, USGS Topo maps, DeLorme Topo maps, or Satellite imagery. There is also a base map which displays major roads of the entire world. (Nice!) You can also pick which order you would like to layer the maps if your highest priority type of map is not available in the current view.
Being able to view a variety of map types can be extremely helpful in a number of situations and I’ve been waiting for this type of GPS product for a long time. Lots of information can be interpreted from aerial photography and satellite imagery that you could not get from a simple topo.
However, there were a couple of small disappointments in the implementation. First, the interface was slow. Switching between map types was slow. Zooming and panning was slow. Overall it just seemed like the PN-20 could have used a faster processor to process the data. My second disappointment (but one that I was expecting) is that the aerial photography isn’t quite as good in many areas as other data sources. For example in my area the aerial photography used by Google Maps and Google Earth is much more detailed (and in color) than the data currently available from DeLorme. My third disappointment was that I did manage to lock up the device a few times while working with the map display. Sometimes I was panning the map, sometimes switching from one layer to another, and sometimes when just paging to the map display.
Update: I just saw the following from DeLorme regarding the quality of the aerial imagery:
By the way, we plan to offer for sale downloads of much more recent and high-res imagery for about 20 states soon. Details will be communicated here and in the Netlink tab. Oftentimes the free ADPs will be good enough for what you need but we do want to get better imagery out for sale to those who want it.
Despite those shortcomings, I’m still really excited about map views on this GPS. After-all just a couple of months ago there were no GPS products on the market like this one.
Update 2: I’ve also written an article about how/why aerial images are useful on a GPS including one real-world story with PN-20 maps and another story where I wish I had them.
Topo USA 6.0
The Topo USA software is where you will setup everything on your computer and then transfer the data to the PN-20. For example I’m planning a mountain snowshoe hike soon so I went into TOPO USA and downloaded the Aerial Data Packets for the surrounding area. I also plotted a few important waypoints (such as the trailhead location). I saved the package and then transferred the maps and waypoints to the GPS. There is also a geocache along the way so I downloaded the file (.loc and GPX both work) from the geocaching site and loaded it into the device as well. Paperless caching…. yum.
You can transfer your data to either the internal storage (75 MB) or onto an SD card (up to 2 Gb). I highly recommend the SD card option for two reasons. The first is that the transfer goes much faster when copying onto an SD card than it does into the internal memory, especially with larger maps. The second reason is that you will likely run out of room in the internal memory fairly quickly.
Another handy feature for my snowshoe hike was the elevation profile. Is the route I’ve picked up the mountain realistic in the winter? An elevation profile gave me my answer and provided me with a preview of how difficult certain sections of the hike would be.
One disappointment is that Topo USA can create three types of routes, direct routes, trail routes, and road routes. Only direct routes and road routes are currently supported on the PN-20 so the trail route I created for my snowshoe trip was converted into a direct route. DeLorme has told me that they hope to address this issue in the future.
On another note, I’ve had no trouble using the DeLorme PN-20 and Topo USA on my Mac via Parallels. Everything runs very smooth and I never encountered any issues running everything from my Mac.
Other Features
I really like the “find” function. When traveling to new areas the PN-20 can be used as a great travel guide. For example on a recent trip out of state I clicked the find button, asked it to show ‘Natural Features’, and then selected ‘Geologic Formation’ for the category. A list of nearby POIs matching that query displayed and I found some interesting new spots to navigate to.
There are tons of other features worthy of being mentioned. You can store up to 10 tracklogs with 10,000 points each. I tested this out by watching just how many circles I ran around in while trying to find a geocache the other day. Tracks can be recorded by distance or by time. There is also a screen which shows sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset, and the stage of the moon. I’ve used this type of information frequently in the past to figure out if I can make it to a certain destination by sunset. There is also a tides page which will show a nice graph of the tide times and heights for locations nearest you. I’ll certainly use that while kayaking in the ocean this summer.
Update: A few people have asked about certain fields or pieces of data to see if they are available. Here is a list of the data/fields you can view:
Back on Course, Battery Life, bearing, Coordinates:primary, Coordinates:secondary, Course, Distance to Finish, Distance to Next Stop, Distance to Next Turn, Elevation, Elevation Max, Elevation Min, ETA at Finish, ETA at Next Turn, ETA at Next Stop, Finish, GPS Accuracy, GPS Status, Heading, Moonrise/Moonset, Next Stop, Next Turn, Next Turn Arrow, Odometer, Speed, Speed:average, Speed:maximum, Speed:Moving Average, Sunrise/Sunset, Time/Date, Time to Finish, Time to Moonrise/set, Time to Next Stop, Time to Next Turn, Time to Sunrise/set, Trip:Odometer, Trip:Time Moving, Trip: Time Stopped, Trip:Time Total, Velocity Made Good, Vertical Speed.
You can customize which of those fields you would like displayed on various screens.
Price and Options
The PN-20 comes in a few different configurations. There is the standard configuration as I’ve described for $379. There is also a “Power Travel Kit” which includes a rechargeable lithium ion battery for $410. I highly recommend this option instead of constantly replacing AA batteries. You can also charge that battery from the USB cable attached to your computer.
And finally there is the “Deluxe” bundle for $450 which includes the lithium ion battery as well as an SD card reader and 1 GB SD card. If you don’t have an SD card and reader already I highly recommend this option because as noted above the map transfer speed directly to the internal memory on the PN-20 can be slow.
Overall, this is a fantastic device and it leads the way in a new breed of GPS devices which can display aerial photography and satellite imagery. For people who have dreamed about having a Google Earth type product in a handheld device…. this is it. My biggest complaint about the device is that the map display can be sluggish, but the type of activities where this device will be most commonly used (hiking, geocaching, biking, kayaking, etc) are not “fast” activities themselves and thus the interface speed won’t likely interfere with your activities much.
Lots of people often ask me “what do you do with all of the GPS devices after you’ve tested them?” Some I purchase and then sell, some are on loan from the manufacturer and get sent back, and some I purchase and keep. I’m keeping my Earthmate PN-20… you can’t have it. 
Video: A Maine news organization recently ran a story on the PN20, you can view the video where they take it geocaching.
| Store | Rating | Best Prices |
|---|---|---|
Compare all prices on the DeLorme Earthmate PN-20 Portable / Handheld GPS ranging from $211.00 to $249.95. | ||
 |  In Stock at J&R | $219.99 |
 | In Stock at Amazon Marketplace | $211.00 |
 |  In Stock at Riverbank's Outdoor Store | $214.95 |
 | In Stock at Amazon.com | $249.95 |
 | In Stock at Solunar.com | $249.95 |
powered by  | ||
[...] Links mentioned in this show: The Jersey Geocaching Podcast GPS News: DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20 Review at GPSreview.net Geocaching with the Garmin Nuvi at EverythingDigital.org [...]
I’ve been looking for a GPS for some time now and I was all set to purchase the Garmin 60CSx, when I noticed this review. (Liked the review btw!) One thing that stands out is the Google Earth type 3D maps. The only problem is this GPS doesn’t have as many other features like the Garmin does. Can we expect to see more of these types of devices in the near future made by other brands? Is it possible for any other company to update the firmware on a current GPS to implement this technology, or would a whole new GPS device be required? In short, I don’t want to but a device and have it become outdated in a month.
Thanks!
You mentioned “as many other features like the Garmin”. Which features are you thinking of? This might help me give you some advice.
The electronic compass/ altimeter as well as SiRF. Also, does this have ascent/descent rate, more specifically something that would give average speed/top speed for skiing or biking?
Thank you for the speedy reply!
You are correct, it does not have an electronic compass. Personally I rarely use that feature on other devices since I often have a compass with me anyway and finding a direction can be done in a couple of seconds from walking in a straight line. But that is just my own personal taste.
It doesn’t have a SiRF chip, but I’ve found the signal to be remarkable. At one point yesterday I had my PN-20 on my desk (inside) and another GPS with the SiRFstar III chipset on the desk. The PN-20 was actually tracking more satellites than the GPS with the SiRF chip. I’m not saying it is better but the chipset performance in the PN-20 is excellent.
There is a field for Vertical speed, as well as average speed, maximum speed, and moving average. Actually, it would probably be useful to list all of the fields available so I’ll go ahead in do that in just a couple of minutes and add them to the body of the post.
Hello Tim
I use a Garmin Etrex Venture on by bicycle mostly as an expensive speedometer. I was looking at the 60cx as a very large step up and I could actually load road maps into it which can’t be done on the Venture. This new Earthmate PN20 looks very interesting too. I’m looking at map cost as being a deciding factor in my purchase decision. Do you have an opinion on this?
Thanks,
Russ
If map cost is the deciding factor then certainly go with the PN-20…. You get their TOPO USA package included with the PN-20. I got a look at their car cradle last night and it looks like it should work well. I mention this because they have a bike mount coming in a few weeks I’m told from the same source so I’ve got high hopes for it.
In my opinion, the topo maps that are included at no extra cost on the PN-20 are better quality than those you would pay extra for on the 60CSx.
Hello Again Tim
Thanks for the quick response. One more question please. Since 99% of my bicycle riding is obviously done on rural roads in the USA, is the Topo map supplied with the Earthmate appropriate for this in your opinion?
Thanks,
Russ
Absolutely. The beautiful thing about the Topo data is that it does cover rural areas well. It includes roads, dirt roads, 4×4 trails, hiking trails, etc.
We live in the Blue Ridge mountains and were wondering if a unit with SiRFstar III chipset would be a better choice for driving/hiking/kayaking in this area.
Thanks,
Karen
Karen the chipset in the PN-20 is fabulous. Others have reported (and I’ve experienced myself) that in many cases the PN-20 can get a signal indoors, something I’ve only seen on other SiRFstarIII chips. I’ve been using it frequently in the car, in deep valleys surrounded by mountains, etc and so far once the signal has been acquired (which is fast) I’ve never once lost the signal or even 3D status.
Hi Tim -
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but has DeLorme mentioned a ship date for the PN-20?
Hi Mike! The PN-20 is shipping now! It looks like you are in Maine… you can also pick them up at the Map Store in Yarmouth.
Hi Tim
I have been waiting for this product for so long now, but found myself disappointed and unable to purchase it for one reason. No electronic compass! I do alot of work in dense areas where it’s not always possible to walk a straight line fast enough to get an accurate, consistent compass reading. What a disappointment for me. My question to you (and I realize you are not Delorme), but do you think they will come out with an electronic compass version of the PN-20 in the near future?
I too have been looking at the Garmin 60CSx. I am into hiking and looking to upgrade my hand held. Do you think the PN-20 works well for hiking in size, signal strength and battery life? esp. as compared to the 60CSx.
Mark - I’m really not sure. In a way I’d probably be a better person to ask then DeLorme themselves since I hear rumors and can speculate while they will want to keep tight lipped. I haven’t heard anything about a successor to the PN-20. My instinct is that since this is their first entry into the portable handheld GPS market that they will want to gather a few months of feedback on the PN-20 before they really start to plan a new device which would make any new models a year or so away. But that is just speculation on my part.
I’d buy a nice tiny (physical) compass and attach it to the PN-20 lanyard. (Sort of joking here, I realize that might not be practical to do that in many applications.)
Mike I think you will find the PN-20 very comparible in those functions. Yes, even in signal strength. The PN-20 has the most sensitive receiver I’ve seen in awhile from a 12 channel receiver. It works great. You will find the maps that come (included) with the PN-20 superior to those you need to pay extra for with the 60CSx.
Mark,
I’ve been using the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx for about a year now and it seems to have all the features of the PN-20 and, in addition, one can get it with a barometer/compass. So I’m trying to figure out how the PN-20 is better and why one would want to buy it over the eTrex Vista.
One feature, among many, that I like about the eTrex Vista is the battery life which is over 18 hours on a single set of AA alkaline batteries. Also, the Garmin eTrex CX costs about $100-150 less than the PN-20 as well. The only negative aspect, in my view, for the Garmin series is the cost of the mapping software but you can have both Topo and Road (no satellite as far as I know.
Can you comment?
The advantage the PN-20 has over the Garmin devices is the quality of the maps, and the fact that the maps are included in the price. The topo maps that come with the PN-20 are a much better quality than those you pay extra for from Garmin. You also have access to (and get a $100 certificate for) aerial photography and satellite imagery which can be loaded on the PN-20.
So the reason someone might want the PN-20 over a Vista Cx is better maps, the ability to load aerial photos and satellite imagery as base maps into the GPS, and that you don’t need to pay extra for most of those maps.
The eTrex Vista Cx has a retail price of $321.41. Topo US retails for $116.65. Those two alone total more than the PN-20, but you still don’t have as good of a world basemap, nor aerial photography/satellite imagery, and the topo product isn’t as good.
Mark,
I’ll have to admit that the maps for the Garmin eTrex Vista CX from MapSource are not the greatest but they do the job. I’ll have to see the maps on the PN-20 to better judge which is better. However, to be correct, you should know that the CX does do auto-routing. I did buy mine for about $230, so I didn’t pay retail.
Sorry, I meant to say that the Garmin will do auto routing, but it doesn’t have the same street level detail out of the box that the PN-20 has. You are correct.
Here is a map sample. The top row is what is available out of the box with the PN-20. The middle row is what you get out of the box with Garmin. The bottom is the Garmin topo that is purchased extra.
Hi Tim,
I travel alot in Canada. Backpacking etc…
Does Delorme have a topo Canada in the works?
I haven’t heard about it, Jim.
Tim,
I purchased a Garmin 76CSx around Christmas for forestry mapping with Delorme’s XMap 5.0 Professional. Just couldn’t wait any longer for Delorme’s PN-20. I am well satisfied with the unit overall. However, I mark a lot of waypoints and categorize them using many waypoint symbols types. Unfortunately, while downloading these waypoints to my computer I loose all my categorized waypoint symbols which wind up being displayed in Delorme XMap 5.0 as “the currently active” waypoint symbol. Do you know if Garmin’s 76CSx is capable of transfering multiple waypoint symbol types to Delorme XMa[ 5.0? How does Delorme’s PN-20 handle the transferred waypoint symbols?
Garmin mapping units come with built-in, permanent basemaps that cannot be altered. These basemaps come in a variety of global designations (i.e., Atlantic basemap). Also included is a worldwide map with political boundaries and major cities. You do not have to pay extra Tim.
Barry, I don’t know the relationship between the 76CSx and Xmap since I don’t have either of those products. (Similar, but I wouldn’t want to speculate what might happen.) You can read a bit about how waypoint symbols get transferred between the PN-20 and Topo USA over here.
Tim
I took your advise earlier on the thread and tried to use a needle compass in combination with my gps to determine which direction my “go to” location was from me, while sitting still. This is an effort to do without an electronic compass on the new PN-20. So I walked to and marked 3 different waypoints with my gps, each about 100 yards from my house, but visible from my deck. I then stood on my deck and one at a time entered “go to” for each waypoint. The gps then gave me a bearing in degrees to that waypoint. When I set that bearing on my silva compass, put the needle on north, and sighted on the direction arrow, in each case the arrow was pointing slightly away from each waypoint as I visually could see the object i set the waypoint on. What am I doing wrong? Is my compass bad? gps bad? Is there a problem with the map datum I have my gps set on (wgs84)?
Mark, have you applied the firmware update released? I know that addressed some compass issues. The datum shouldn’t make a difference… the GPS receives the signal and if you want the map to display in a different datum you can, however I believe it will just convert what was sent to it.
I assume you took into account the local magnetic deviation?
TechSupp, the basemap that comes with the 60CSx is not as detailed as the basemap that comes with the PN-20. (I’m a proud 60CSx owner myself.)
For example on the PN-20 I can zoom out, scroll over to Sydney Australia, zoom in, and see good street level details. The PN-20 also comes with street level maps (all the way down to local dirt roads) for the entire USA, plus Topo for the entire USA, plus 400sq km of aerial photography and satellite imagery. To achieve that level of detail on the 60CSx you would need to purchase additional map packages and some of it (sat/aerial) isn’t available for purchase on the 60CSx.
Is there a possibility that Garmin will update to the aerial imagery the PN-20 has? Would a new device be needed or would aerial photography display on the 60CSX? I’m still stuck between the pn-20 and 60csx.
Hi Pete. I doubt Garmin will want to comment on future products, so we can only speculate. However I believe the current Garmin handhelds can only display vector data. Since the aerial images are raster data, provisions would need to be made for them to display those images.
So the question becomes did Garmin put enough hardware into the 60CSx and think ahead to where it would be able to display raster images. I don’t know the answer to that question, but I would speculate that a new model might be necessary. (Although I could be wrong.)
I’ve got to imagine that Garmin is hard at work at a handheld product with aerial photography and it is only a matter of time before something will be available.
The PN-20 looks interesting, but I’m wondering: (a) what is the battery life? (b) what is the storage required for various maps? I upgraded from a 76CS to a 76CSx recently, and I now carry full topo + auto-route maps for the entire US in a few microSD cards. The topo isn’t great but it’s functional; the auto-route is great. The batteries (2 NiMH) last for ~14hrs easily. I can’t tell if the PN-20 can equal this…I find no specs on battery life and only anecdotal storage requirements. Obviously I wouldn’t carry aerial maps for the entire US, but how many SD cards would it take just for topo + routing (and SD are ~4x larger than microSD)?
(a) Battery life is dependent on the type of battery used. I’ve been getting about 12 hours from NiMH batteries. I know other people who have been using Energizer Lithiums and getting over 20 hours.
(b) The maps take up a lot of space. There is so much data in the maps that you won’t be able to carry a huge amount of terrain on the PN-20 at one time. It also depends on which maps you add (topo, aerial, satellite, usgs) and at what zoom levels you add each type of map. So there will be a huge variation in map sizes depending on your preferences, that is why you probably only find anecdotal storage requirements.
I went hiking recently and put the topo, aerial, satellite, and USGS topo maps on my device. I only took enough area to cover around the mountain I was hiking on. The total map package was about 17 MB at the zoom levels I had set for each map type. I’ve got a similar map cut for the city I live in which took about 30 MB.
Here is another dataset to look at. I just created a map for all of Santa Clara County, Californai, but just the DeLorme Topo maps… no satellite, aerial, or USGS topo maps. The total map package size was 29 MB.
The desktop software offers many functions (importing/creating waypoints, creating trail routes, creating auto routes, etc). Therefore, I’ve found myself doing all of the work ahead of time from the desktop, then sending everything over (map packages, routes, waypoints) to the PN-20 before my adventure.
And while it seems odd at first to only have a tiny area of maps on my device at any time, most of the time I know ahead of time where I’m going. I don’t end up unexpectedly in a new state often when I wouldn’t have had a few minutes to load the maps ahead of time. It sounds like a pain, but so far it hasn’t been. Most of the time I would want to transfer routes and waypoints ahead of time anyway so adding the maps doesn’t add that much of a step.
Tim, thanks. So the battery life looks in line with the 76CSx. I probably wouldn’t have a surprise visit out of state either, but surprise visits to other counties are fairly commonplace for me - happened this last weekend, and I used the 76CSx for both auto-nav and topo. SD cards are bigger than microSD, but not THAT big - I could probably carry 4 or so. If Santa Clara Co took 29MB and it’s 1291 sq mi, all of CA (156K sq mi) should take ~3.5GB for topo + routing only, or two 2gb SD cards. Of course, USGS, aerial, or other non-vector maps would be a lot more. Another possibility (say, for a camping trip) is to carry DVD and a UMPC or sub-notebook, and install aerial/USGS to the GPS as needed. I currently use Google Earth to plot where I’m going or where I’ve been, but that requires LAN/WiFi/WAN to get the maps - so it’s hard to do in remote places. I wonder if the DVD approach (or pre-loaded DVDs like I do with Garmin maps) would make sense? Prior Topo releases limited the amount of free aerial/USGS downloads, so it might cost a fortune, whereas GEarth is free.
Don’t forget too in case you missed it. With the PN-20 you get 400sq km of their ADP data (satellite, aerial, usgs topo) included. Beyond that you need to purchase through their Topo USA application or via their website to download to your computer and then transfer to the PN-20.
I do quite a bit of outdoors work as my job. I’m a ranger responsible for search and rescue in New Hampshire. I find the 60CSx great for navigating but don’t end up using the compass or altimeter functions. I find a real compass, adjusted for magnetic declination, far more accurate, and a Suunto, Polar, or similar wrist altimeter much easier to calibrate on the fly- which given the weather changes in New England is every chance I get. As for the issue of memory and mapsets- at any time on my 60CSx I have loaded topos of the states of Maine, NH, and VT- these are places where there may be searches or I might hike for fun. Then I go for vacations to the Sierras and Mt. Rainier- so I have Topos for them loaded as well. Then again i have City Select for getting to and from searches or general travel. So with the 2GB card in my Garmin card I have to say I have major chunks of the US in both Topo and Street modes- which is good because I’ve had to suddenly go somewhere and barely had time to pack the weather-appropriate gear- not enough to think much about downloading maps. So, there is value in having large portions of land in both topo and street mode, loaded and ready to go.
That said, my question is, a. is the basemap on the DeLorme good enough to not need to load street maps? (If you’re doing just interstate driving, it’s good enough on the Garmin- otherwise not.)
b. I take it that the DeLorme doesn’t autoroute from the comments I see here?
c. as a hiker, do you think this is a significant improvement in terms of actually helping you locate yourself and navigate, and
d. when we’re on a search we routinely return to Incident Command to download our tracks- to see what areas we’ve covered- and everyone else has a Garmin- will that be a problem using two different types of units on Terrain Navigator?
Interesting info on battery life for these GPS devices. For the record, the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx battery life is over 30 hours on NiMH batteries. Manual says 32 hours (I think).
a) There are multiple levels of maps to answer this question. For the raw basemap that comes preinstalled on the PN-20, no it is not detailed enough for street routing. However there are what are called “Regional” map packages which do supply regional street level routing. For example there is one that includes CT, MA, ME, NH, NY, RI, and VT that totals 13 MB in size.
b) Yes, you can do auto routing with the PN-20.
c) Yes, I do. I’m going to elaborate on this more in another article soon. But as a quick example I was hiking the other day and found that the trail wasn’t quite as described. Having all of the necessary gear and training I decided to bushwhack a little bit. Having the satellite maps I was able to pick a route that avoided the thick undergrowth of coniferous trees. I also was able to avoid an old rock slide by interpreting what looked like a clearing and matching it with tight contour lines.
d) I haven’t used Terrain Navigator, but you can download the tracks into Topo USA and then export them to (the fairly standard) GPX format.
That is a good point, Steve. I haven’t done any exhaustive battery life testing and to be honest the way I use a GPS probably isn’t representative of most users. I’ve been getting about 12 hours, but when the GPS is on I’m almost always fiddling with buttons, changing screens, recalculating routes, etc for product evaluation purposes. It is almost never just passively turned on. This keeps the backlight on and hits the CPU harder. DeLorme tells me the backlight is the biggest draw on power, so if I used the GPS like a normal user does I might get considerably more than 12 hours, but not likely 32. I’ve also been keeping WAAS turned on which is another battery hog.
Ok, I’m starting to get the picture: 400 sq mi is free (a $100 value). That’s 25 cents a square mile. But all of California downloaded would cost just under $39,000. Um…I think I’ll pass. I guess I’d really HAVE to know in advance what I need. Or stick with my 76CSx plus Google Earth + TerraServer (for topo), for free. I have TopoUSA 5.0, and while I like the graphics & content over MapSource/Garmin, I’ve found (a) it’s painfully slow even on a new, fast desktop computer, and (b) the UI is severely weird/hard to use. It sounds like they have a few performance probs to work out on the PN-20 from the review. Maybe I’m missing something here?
I’m not sure you are missing anything specific. I’ve heard something about a program where you can buy bulk sections of their ADP data on CD/DVD for less, but don’t have any specific info on it. Yes, you would need to know in advance what areas you need covered.
I’ve been running Topo USA 6 and it seems to be speedy, perhaps there were some performance improvements in the newer version. And yes, the UI is a little strange at first if you are not used to other DeLorme products.
I did feel that the PN-20 could have used a faster processor, some of the screen redraws were a little slow. I’ve found that when cutting the maps and taking only the layers I know I want at fewer zoom levels the draw time is faster.
The PN-20 won’t be for everyone. But if you have a need for aerial/sat maps on GPS and can plan ahead to package the maps you need it can be great.
I ride off road dirt bikes, will this pickup signals if I carry it in a back pack or pocket while riding?
I’d try to keep it towards the top of a backpack or in an upper pocket where it will have as clear of a sky view as possible. But yes, I’ve thrown the PN-20 in the top of my backpack and it continued to log with good reception.
very interesting.
Tim ?
I may be in the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes.
What stores have the GPS pn-20 on their shelves so I can hold one in my hands and ask questions.
I don’t do anything your regular readers do. I just drive around, like in Amish country in Ohio- Penn- Mich-and other sight seeing places. I have GPS on the laptop– but my wife don’t like being in the trunk while all the stuff is on the front seat. I would like a smaller unit when we travel.
zip code is 43537 Maumee OH ( I say there-Toledo is our suburb ? ) I want to see one before I send for one. Thank you Don Zeiter
It is currently only available from DeLorme. Once production levels ramp up (later this Spring I’m told) it will start to become available at more retailers. But for now it is only available straight from DeLorme. So you can’t get your hands on one now, but feel free to ask any questions you might have.
DeLorme also has a 30 day guarantee, buy it, use it, and if you don’t like it send it back.
Hi Tim
I was wondering if you knew the quaility of imagery for areas outside the US? I will be going to West Papau and would love to take one along for a test ride. On the point, can you load up your own imagery (I have some Ikonos) or do you have get it all through DeLorme?
Lastly, how much can you store on the GPS, or can you use memory cards for more imagery?
Thanks
I don’t believe you can get the ADP imagery for outside of the US. Specs are along the top left of the page. 75MB internal and then you can use SD cards (up to 2 GB) for additional space.
I have used DeLorme’s Topoquad software for many years, and own several of the CDs, which contain all of the 1:24,000 quads for specific states. Is it known if these can be uploaded via the Topo USA software interface? It would be nice to have quads from this source. I’m not so interested in the digital imagery in the ADPs.
Great review! You stated that the unit is waterproof. Do you know if it floats?
Edward - I don’t believe those would work, but I’m not 100% sure. You get Topo USA with the PN-20 which includes all of DeLorme’s Topo maps for the USA. The USGS topos you can get through the ADPs.
Phil It will float depending on which batteries you use. With cheap alkaline batteries it will sink but with the lithium ion battery it will float. Once the ice melts this spring and I can get the kayak out I’m going to purchase a little key float to tie to the lanyard just in case…. or for those times I forget to charge the Li-Ion battery and use alkalines.
I read mentions of 400 sq mile of the aerial maps come with it, but, I seem to recall that is really 400 square kilometers. That is a LOT less area! That is worth $100? My gosh, they are like Kodak, sell the camera cheap and make money on the film. Or, buy an HP4600 laser printer and spend $1000 on a 4 color cartridge load.
As far as I am concerned, that little feature is keeping me from ordering this attractivec sounding PN-20. I remember back in the early days of personal computing, a CD containing 1000 fonts was priced at thousands of dollars. Now, fonts are like water.
Yes, I read 400sq km rather than sq mi as well, and that would be a lot less area. However, even 400sq mi @ $100 still seems pretty steep for me when it’s available free in other ways - if you have internet connectivity. Google maps, Google Earth, MS Live Local, and Mapquest all have real terrain data for free, and Terraserver and others provide topo maps for free. All (or almost) take lat/lon as input. My little cell phone can view any this for $0.10/MB + connect time on demand…and usually when I care (weekends), connect time is free. It’s only $0.10 because I don’t pay for internet bandwidth up front at all…this is also fairly expensive and only works where cell connectivity is possible, but I only download exactly what I need, exactly when I need it - no guessing beforehand. Of course, a combined, integrated mechanism would be a lot less complicated - they exist (cell phone + gps) but I don’t have one yet.
Net result, the value of the PN-20 over other solutions is still somewhat dubious in my book.
Yea Charles, it depends how you would use the data. You get the entire US via Topo USA but you need to pay for the aerial imagery.
As an example, I went hiking last weekend and downloaded ADP packets covering the trail/mountain I was hiking and any of the surrounding area I might find myself in if I wondered off-trail. I needed a total of 10 sq km of the ADP packets which cost $2.50. To me, it was worth the $2.50 for that trip. Going on a trip every weekend at that rate and I’d burn through the $100 in about nine months.
You can also order ADP packets in bulk, delivered on CD for much cheaper (I think it is .04 per packet versus .25 you pay for download) if you need to cover lots of area.
Charles,
This is why I was previously asking about the DeLorme state CDs. I have since called DeLorme, and the person I spoke with there claims that the unit will take quads from the state sets for Topoquads 3-D. If so, that is good news, as these are about a hundred dollars a state, and I already own the states I need.
Even an area of 20 miles by 20 miles is pretty minimal, but (as you point out) 400 km is trifling. I have no need for the aerial or satellite images–interesting, but a novelty. However, a mapping GPS with USGS quads is a whole different proposition. That’s useful and the next step for which I’ve been waiting for years.
Incidentally, FWIW I still believe in backcountry travel with map and compass and observational navigation, but the GPS is a very handy extra tool. Having the same map (the 7.5 minute quad) on both the GPS and paper is a huge improvement over a quad plus a rudimentary topo along the lines of the Garmin Mapsource.
Ted
So as I mentioned above I do search and rescue in New Hampshire. What is the advantage of purchasing the “topoquad” of New Hampshire? I’d be willing to pay $100 if the advantage over the included maps was significant.
Dave
DeLorme’s FAQ for the PN-20 has been updated to say that it’ll accept the topos from the Topoquads.
I currently have the Garmin 60CSx and find its rudimentary topo map with its serious lack of detail to be frustrating, its inability to have both the topo map and the streets map active at the same time is frustrating, and its auto-routing function can be downright dangerous! For example, I was at Stovepipe Wells in Death Valley, and asked it to route me to the town of Darwin. It routed me up Darwin Wash up a non-existent road! (A road that I knew didn’t exist because I’ve hiked up Darwin Wash past the end of the road to see Darwin Falls and driven my Jeep on the *real* road that exits Darwin Wash much earlier than the non-existent one that Garmin routed me on — a real road that is a category 3 road, i.e., high clearance vehicles only with maybe some 4×4 needed in sandy areas). If I’d been some German tourists on tour driving a typical rental car, the Garmin 60CSx could have *KILLED* me with its faulty routing! So the PN-20 is looking quite interesting to me even though I have what on paper looks like a “better” GPS.
Yes, for sure the lack of detail on Garmin topo can be disappointing, and the need and process for switching between topo/routing maps can be frustrating. I have a 70csx; I really like it, but I agree with this. It’s a total pain to switch back and forth, thru 3 “screens” and 5-6 button presses for each switch.
As for the routing problems - I’ve traveled alot without an alternate paper map, both on and off road, and yeah, I occasionally find mistakes too, sometimes big ones. If someone were to show that another GPS had more trustworthy maps, I’d be very interested. I’ve just naively assumed that all the mapping is somewhat inaccurate. A few times I’ve been able to compare topo with routing maps to interpolate and find my way over mistakes.
Are other mapping products (DeLorme’s) really more mistake-free? Plus, for me at least, it’s kind of important to have the maps with me, and not have to go back home, download them, and then leave again.
To be truthful, all mapping products, be they Garmin/Mapquest or Delorme/Earthmate will have errors. I was in Springfield, VA and trying the Delorme re-routing with US Atlas and their older Earthmate product. Their mapping data base put me on a road that was a dead end. The Mapquest data base was more accurate and showed this road as a dead end and didn’t try to re-route me through it. So, bottom line, all data bases have errors that could get you in trouble. I’ve often wondered if that guy who died in Oregon this past winter had a GPS system with him. Does anyone know?
We are getting off-topic a little bit here from the PN-20. We can discuss map accuracy further in the gps forums. But it is my understanding he didn’t have a GPS but printed directions from (I think) MapQuest. That is what I’ve heard through net sources and don’t have any info to backup my memory.
In answer to Dave’s S & R query, it seems to me that there would be an advantage primarily if you use USGS quads in the field. Then (assuming that the Topoquads indeed are uploadable–I would call DeLorme yourself on this) your quad map and the map displayed on the PN-20 should be identical.
A further advantage is that (though it varies a bit) most USGS quads have contours at 20 ft intervals (though this occasionally varies, as in the Adirondacks in the Eastern High Peaks region, where they went metric). I believe (and I’m sure I will be corrected if wrong) that TopoUSA 6 included in the DeLorme bundle shows intervals only at 100 ft intervals. Small cliffs etc. that may be hidden in TopUSA should show up on the quad, at least to the extent that you will see the bunched contours.
Best,
Ted
The Topo USA maps, cut into the PN-20 can be set to display up to as fine as 10 ft intervals. This depends on the setting you have made in Topo USA (contour level detail) as well as the current zoom setting on the PN-20. You can see conversation about contour levels on the PN-20 over here.
Tim,
Interesting (in regard to the contours). However, my question is what that data is based on, and that’s not discussed on the link you provide. The USGS contours are based on survey, though naturally subject to error (the margin of which is discussed somewhere on their website–I don’t recall the specifics).
What’s not clear to me from the discussion cited is what the elevation model on which the ten-foot contour level is created is based. Is this simply an interpolation? If that’s the case, there’s no new information gained by using the ten-foot model over the hundred-foot model, other than perhaps better visualization of the terrain. If however the ten-foot contouring is based on an elevation model of that level of vertical resolution, than that is indeed terrific. Tim — do you know what the story is on this? I’d very much like to know.
Ted.
I don’t know the answer to that Edward, however I can ask them (or you can too). There is some discussion about their elevation data here, but the discussion doesn’t seem to be totally conclusive.
Quick question- In the DEMO on the DeLorme site, the samples of maps of different types don’t seem to include the shaded relief version shown in what seems like a screenshot of the PN-20 above. I’m referring to the one with gloves, tent, and Incident Command. So can the unit display 3D views or can you only do that on your PC? Thanks.
I’m not quite sure I follow your examples, but I think I can answer the question. The PN-20 cannot display 3D views. The included Topo software (PC) can.
I knew I probably wasn’t asking the question correctly- there is a picture near the top of this column that almost looks like a 3D shaded relief map- there are icons for “Command Post” “gloves found” and “backpack found” on the picture. I’m curious - was that picture a screenshot from the unit or from the PC? It was hard to tell- maybe it’s not really a 3D shaded relief- the picture is kind of small. dave
That is one of the SAT-10 photos. It isn’t really shaded relief. Some of the very dark spots are lakes, others are probably natural shadows when the sat photo was taken. You can see that area here.
OK, that’s very helpful- it looks like in some cases the SAT 10 photos can be very useful, especially when they give a sense of topographic relief- which is sometimes hard to figure out in the field when you’re mildly hypothermic. Once I’ve saved up enough to purchase this unit I’ll spend the $100 credit on the region we do most of our searches in. Is there any way to see on the web the SAT 10 pics of that region, or should I just imagine that it will be somewhat downgraded version of the Google Earth view of that area?Thanks again,
Dave
Couple of notes. You can purchase bulk data cheaper on CD (.04/unit versus .25) than via download. There are now five types of images you can use:
DOQQ - Aerial Photography (b&w) (raster)
SAT10 - Satellite Imagery (raster)
3DTQ - USGS Topo Quads (raster)
TOPOUSA6 - The DeLorme Topos (vector)
CDOQQ - Aerial Photography (color) (raster) (only some areas available right now)
The image you are referencing above is from SAT10 which is the lowest resolution of the raster images.
Hey Dave, re: SAT 10 pics on the web - not sure if this will help, but there is a VERY cool mashup that consolidates Google maps, topo maps, DOQ and NEXRAD imagery. So, with the press of a button, you can switch views, much as you can on the PN-20. Of course you need web access to do it though. Here is an example w/ roughly the same geoloc as previously posted:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=48.71199,-113.71383&z=15&t=T&marker0=48.71199%2C-113.71383%2CN48%25C2%25B042.720W113%25C2%25B042.830
THanks Mark- that’s a very interesting site- I will use it to print out maps of areas for future searches.
Looks like the PN-20 would make a great replacement for my Meridian Color w/ the ill-supported Mapsend Topo. Maps would be current and battery life should be better. With the MC, I loose my batteries even with the unit off!
Any word about interfacing with future versions of Street Atlas that support street level Canada? I have relatives in Ontario that I like to visit.
Glenn, I haven’t heard anything regarding SA support or Canadian maps.
I need to make a map of my firing range - about 1/2 mile wide by 2 miles deep (DOD Ft. Carson)
I have a Delorme LT-20 and laptop. I spent about 8 1/2 hours one Sunday mapping the 100 or so Targets and routes from one target to another (avoiding the “waddies” (BIG long hole in ground))
I really need this info on a map or GPS as we work rotating shifts and my turn in the dark is coming soon.
I have this mapped out on TOPO 6.0 - Can I download this into the PN-20 and keep the tracking AND the markers that I have on the laptop - which is a 3 letter abbreviation for the target type and the pit # IE #37.
Being a firing range we are way out from the city lights. And - I will get the call… Hey Kevin - Go to pit 78 and fix… you get the idea - finding it in the dark with no idea where ‘it’ is while at the same time avoiding all the things that can hurt you (did I tell you about the waddies?)( no - no idea why the call them that!).
I guess what I am getting to - is, in your opinion - will this be a good tool - for this purpose? Thank you for your time and help!
Kevin, I think that would be a great use of the PN-0. If you already have the fixes loaded into topo USA as waypoints then you could just transfer them over to the PN-20. You could load up the routes ahead of time and then activate them (or create them) as needed on the PN-20. Sounds like exactly what it was designed for.
I see that the PN-20 now has an electronic compass built into it. That is the least of my concearn. Would anybody know with this new update did anything get done with the processor? Alot of reviews I’ve read said that it’s slow and locks up?
Thank-you
Robert
Not sure where you read that info Robert, but the PN-20 does not have an electronic compass. Only one device has been released so there have been no processor changes.
I got a flyer in the mail from DeLorme and it was comparing the PN-20 with a couple of other devices. And it said the PN-20 has a compass.
I went to both DeLorme and Earthmates web sites and they both show a screen shot of a compass on the PN-20. Which was why I was asking about a processor update.
Unless I’m misreading or misunderstanding something I’m sorry to have wasted anybodys time.
Robert
Nope, not wasting anyone’s time at all. We’re here to help sort it all out!
There is a compass, but it is not what is commonly known as an “electronic compass”. An electronic compass is specialized equipment with a device which can determine what direction the device is facing without movement (like a traditional magnetic compass).
However most GPS devices determine direction by looking at your movement. If it knows where you were 5 seconds ago and knows where you are now, provided you moved within that timespan it will let you know what direction you last moved in.
So the PN-20 does have a compass, but it can only tell you the direction when you are moving (or what direction your last movement was). It does not have an electronic compass which would tell you the direction without movement.
Thanks for your input!
One other question - Will it display the tags I have given it in TOPO 6.0?
Tags? Or waypoints? You can transfer waypoints to the PN-20. I’m still a little bit of a rookie with Topo USA, but if you mean items in a waypoint layer from the draw tab, yes. (Otherwise I probably don’t know what tags are yet.)
Can the backlight be turned off to conserve battery life? Are there multiple levels of backlight - high, medium, and low such as on the eXplorist?
The backlight can be turned off, yes. The backlight is the biggest draw on battery power. There is a slider where you can set 11 different brightness levels. You can also set how long you want the backlight to stay on for after pressing a button. (15 sec, 30 sec, 45 sec, 1 min, always on).
Tim,
How well would the PN-20 serve here in Alaska. Does Topo 6 cover Alaska well? I have used compasses and the Delorme Map/Gazeteer for Alaska for years and I am pretty pleased with the detail of the paper (along with USGS topos). I am looking to include electronics to improve my Hunting and Fishing data collection and to store on my PC.
Thank you!
It looks like Topo USA covers Alaska with the same resolution that other states are covered. However it doesn’t look like aerial imagery (ADP) is available for Alaska.
i have had nothing but problems with my pn-20: erroneous tracks, odometer is way optimistic, average and top speeds over 100mph faster than i was traveling, and the processor doesn’t seem to be able to handle all the info saved on sd cards (try doing a search for a city or street when you have a topo map loaded on the sd card, it freezes every time, requiring a reset).
also, my computer stopped recognizing the pn-20 over the weekend and i could no longer transfer waypoints, tracks, or routes to it.
it is going back to Delorme today… bummer. my guess is that they will have all this stuff ironed out for the next device. Delorme is a good company with some really good map software. i would, however, not recommend buying the pn-20. not yet, anyway.
Does the PN-20 have a connection for an external antenna
There is no external antenna.
I’m currently using a Magellan GPS315 and National Geographic Topo maps. When waypoints are uploaded the date and time the waypoint was created are lost.
Is there a way with the PN-20 to upload to a computer the waypoints with date and time and get that info onto the National Geographic Topo maps?
Thanks.
Perry, waypoints created on the PN20 contain the date, time, and elevation in addition to the coordinates. I’m not sure what would happen if you try to import those to NGT since I don’t have a copy, but the underlying data is there and it is available from DeLorme’s Topo USA program on import.
Just one question Tim,
If I have to buy one now,
what would you recommend to get, 60Csx or PN20?
I am not much of hardcore mountaineer but
do a lot of backroad 4wheelings and hikings.
Oh, another question…
Dose this unit display numbers in metric as well?
I really like the PN20 for the aerial photography which isn’t currently available on the 60CSx as well as the additional level of detail in the topo maps. That is important for the ways I use a handheld GPS. I also really like all of the desktop mapping options provided through the Topo USA software.
The 60CSx has (in my opinion) a more sensitive GPS chipset although the chipset in the PN20 works incredibly well. It also has an electronic compass although that feature isn’t critical for me.
The PN20 can display in statute miles, kilometers, nautical miles/feet, and nautical miles/meters.
I fish Canada a lot. What will the PN 20 screen show when I am there. Will it just be a gray screen that I can use for waypoints, tracks etc like a low end Garmin would be?
The map system on ghe PN20 looks super good for here in Norther WI. where we do our hunting and roaming the woods.
In Canada it will show you their worldwide basemap. This includes major roads, major water features, but no topographic data. I’ll try to getup a screenshot of Montreal:
Montreal Image on PN-20
[...] a few people have asked me if I’ve found aerial images on the DeLorme PN-20 important and useful. Yes! Here is why having aerial photography on a GPS can be important (and a [...]
I’m sure these are grade-school level questions. But here it goes anyway with two separate/unrelated questions:
1. Is the 60csx better than the pn-20 in tree cover? (In other words, when traveling through timber, which I do in Northern ID, would I still have RELIABLE satellite “connections”?)
2. Say I want to measure a property using the typical corner markers (rebar showing the four corners of a typically surveyed lot): would the 60csx or the pn-20 give me the distance from point A to point B (e.g., 150 feet from A to B; then 250 foot for B to C, etc.) which I could then draw on a map (Topo 6? or, using Google Earth) with the coordinates?
Hope I make sense. Your answers would be greatly appreciated since I would use the 60 csx or the pn-20 for real estate purposes in addition to personal use (tromping through the timber).
Thanks — Harry
Harry - (1) Since it is still looking like winter where I am I haven’t had a chance to test the PN-20 in dense deciduous growth yet. But the PN-20 is one of the few GPS devices that are not SiRFstarIII based (like the 60CSx) which I can often get a signal indoors.
(2) Check out this thread where I talk about mapping lots with the PN-20. You will likely get a signal faster with the 60CSx and maybe slightly more consistent results, but overall both would do the job. However with the additional mapping features offered with Topo USA where you can draw shapes objects, use layers, etc with the PN-20 you might find that software more powerful for saving and presenting that information. It would also be compatible with Google Earth if you wanted to export your tracklogs there.
Tim,
Thank you for the prompt answers!
The measuring feature that you refer to is definitely important for my purposes and the pn-20 sounds to do the job and with the drawing capability it will certainly do what I want.
As to signal strength in “dense” cover, where I do my hiking it’s primarily coniferous trees but they’re probably just as dense as decidous forests with which you’re familiar. If anyone has experience with the two gps’s — the 60csx and/or the pn-20 — in heavy (overhead) cover, your feedback would be really helpful.
TIA — Harry
I have been using DeLorme Xmap 5.0 Enterprise on my laptop with the Earthmate LT-20 GPS receiver in my vehicle. I need a compatible hand-held receiver where I can import/export track files,waypoints and shape files. Would the PN-20 be the best choice?
hi,
can anyone tell me how the reception works in a car?
Thanks!
Steve
Harry - Given that besides SiRFstarIII based devices the PN-20 is the only device where I’ve been able to get a signal inside my house, I’d say the signal quality is extremely good, but perhaps not quite as good (nor fast) as the 60CSx.
Don - I don’t believe DeLorme has made their Xmap product compatible with the PN-20 yet, but I hear they will in the future.
Steve - I haven’t had any trouble with reception in my car.
I am looking for an all purpose handheld gps unit. We would be using this unit for camping, geocaching, and on/off road use. I have spent a good amount of time reviewing numerous devices. The majority decision seems to be between the 60csx and the pn-20. My main question is if someone were to choose one of the two, which one would be the best overall choice. I realize that my question is subjective to opinion and experience, however given the list of functions and capabilities one of these must be the better choice of the two. Any insight or help from anyone would more than useful. Thanks in advance for your time.
The “better choice” often comes down to how you might use the device in comparison to other people. If I was strictly geocaching I might prefer the 60CSx for the faster satellite fix and slightly stronger receiver. For creating tracklogs, hiking, kayaking, etc I prefer the PN-20 for the aerial photography on the GPS which (as the linked article talks about) can be a huge safety tool. I also like the PN-20 for the additional detail in the topo maps and the included topo usa software for desktop mapping.
Hey,
I’m going backpacking the Europe this summer and was wondering if there are any kind of maps for the PN-20 of Europe. The mapping software are all for the US, but can we put road maps or any impages for Europe since the basic highway thing that comes with it isn’t good enough. Thanks.
Will
Will - I’m not aware of any more detailed maps that can be added beyond the world basemap that comes pre-installed.
Hey,
If you don’t know of Europe maps, can you show me screen shots of the europe road maps? i ant to see how detailed they can get, so can you show specifically shots of munich, vienna and prague?
Will, it just shows major roads and highways. You can see an image of London here.
It says Pn-20 can save 10 logs on the internal memory, then what if I am on the road for 2 weeks and need to log everyday as separate log. What’s gonna happen when it exceeds 10 logs? Can I save 4 logs on SD card?
Depends what type of post-processing you need to do with the logs. You could save multiple days into one track, then export the track in Topo USA, separate it by day, and then import them again into topo usa.
Hi! I read that the PN20 supports direct, trail and road routes, but converts trail to direct. I’ve been waiting for a unit that’ll keep trail a trail. Any hope, in your opinion, for that in the future (from this unit, especially)? What a bonus that’d be. Thanks.
You can create a trail, direct, or road route with the Topo USA software. You can transfer each of those three types of routes to the PN20. You can only create direct and road routes on the PN20. You cannot (yet) create a trail route on the PN-20. I hear this will be added in a future firmware update.
A trail route *can* be converted to a direct route on the PN-20 if select “view map” instead of “navigate”. So long as you stay away from the “view map” button with regards to a trail route you have sent over from Topo USA a trail route will stay a trail route.
Based on your answer to question 111 Am I to understand that if I create a trail route on my computer using Topo USA that when I transfer it to the PN-20 it will still remain a trail route and will NOT be converted (unless I want it to be)? I do a lot of backpacking and want trail.
Can I use my Street Atlas 2005 USA on the PN-20?
Greg - Correct. Many of us who were early adopters of this GPS thought it would be converted to a trail route, but that is because we were clicking the wrong button on the PN-20 which caused it to reroute into a direct route. Stay away from the “View Map” button on the route screen and the trail route will stay a trail route. I’ve also turned off auto recalculation to prevent trail routes from being recalculated.
I don’t believe SA 2005 will talk to the PN-20, although you could likely transfer some types of information from the PN20 to Topo USA and then maybe into SA 2005.
WOW that is one quick reply Thank you.
Now if I did not misread I previous question the PN-20 is not good for street navigation? Right now I use Street Atlas (some times Streets & Trips)on my lap top to get to the street where the trail head is. I then have Long/Lat programed into my Garmin etrax. It would be nice to have one unit
To give you an example. I live in CT going to VA to hike. I set up my Laptop with my route and track my progress. I get to VA turn off the LAPtop and turn on the GPS and head out on the trail. Basically more of a toy on the trail to see how I am doing. I do do a little bushwhacking and Geo caching.
You can use the PN-20 for auto navigation, but it is a little cumbersome to setup on the PN-20 since that is not what it was primarily designed for. Creating road routes on Topo USA and transferring them to the PN-20 would be the way to go and less cumbersome than building the route on the PN-20 itself. But the screen is so tiny I find auto navigation difficult at best on any of these handheld GPS devices.
I’m disappointed in the contour interval on the Garmin products. How does the PN-20 compare?
Can the PN-20 add a calendar entry of a waypoint (geocache) found?
Can you load the geocaching icons into the PN-20?
Does the PN-20 auto recalculate when off route with out having to press any buttons?
If I just want to the streets and topos loaded, how large of an area can be placed on the 1 gig. chip?
Brian:
(1) See the link in comment #20 for a comparison.
(2) It doesn’t do that automatically, although when updating the icon to geocache found you could update the date/time field, add a comment, or create a new waypoint with a new timestamp automatically.
(3) Geocaches loaded in from .loc and .gpx files have a default geocache icon when loaded on the PN20.
(4) It can auto recaculate and you can set how far off track you need to be to trigger an auto recaclulation. People have disagreed with some aspects of how auto recalculation works on the PN-20. Rather than calculating a new route to the destination from the current location it tries to get you back on the original route. There are advantages and disadvantages to each methodology but it sounds like they will try to address this to be more flexible in future firmware updates.
(5) See comments 32, 33, and 37 for a few size examples.
Question in regard to handling multiple non continous maps - can I put put topo maps of non continous areas on the GPS - like two different trails, and the GPS will know to switch and show me those detail maps when I am at those trails. Also, can I put one map package on the internal memory and one on an SD card and be able to use them both? Will the GPS look in the internal memory and the SD at the same time to determined which map to take from which memory base on my location?
Moti: Yes, Yes, Yes.
I notice that all of the products that come with the pn-20 are all for US maps, are there any maps or anything i can use for when i backpack europe this summer besides the world highway basemap? Thanks.
Will - See answer #106 where I answered your question earlier.
Does the PN-20 have the ability, or better, is it possible to create maps from other raster sources and import them into the pn-20, and do i understand correctly that you can use the USGS maps in the pn-20 as well as the delorme topo maps?
You can’t use raster maps from other sources at this point. However you can use USGS scanned topo maps provided by DeLorme.
I’ve seen SD memory cards with transfer rates from 5 to 50 Mbyts/sec. How fast of a card can the PN-20 take advantage of? Do you notice a difference in speed with faster cards?
Transfer from the computer directly to the PN-20’s SD card is quite slow. It is faster to transfer to the SD card in an SD reader. I don’t imagine a faster card would make the transfer any faster when the card is in the PN-20.
I do alot of hunting and would like to use the PN 20 to make maps of stands and differnt areas of game sign. Will this unit be a good choice to use as a map making tool? Thanks.
It would be a great choice for that.
My wife and I are about to retire and do lots of travel in the US-Canada and Europe. I have a DeLorme gps that we plug into my laptop, ok for the car but I want something smaller to use in a city and to get from city to city. From reading your comments we would like your suggestion-s.
Jay, the PN20’s detailed maps do not extend into Canada.
I currently own Delorme’s Topo 6.0, and when I manually add a GPS coordinate to an aerial photo the point on the map and the one I added are “off” by Several hundred feet. For example I plotted what was supposed to be an intersection of two roads and after plotting it in Topo 6.0 it showed up 300 feet to the north in the woods, not over the location of the intersection on the aerial photo. Does this happen with the PN-20 also, or does the cursor appear correctly on the aerial photo when it’s displayed on the unit? In other words is there any shifting or distortion from where the GPS says you are and where the map says you are?
Dan - Yes, it will still display incorrectly on the PN-20. You can read more about the issue here. I’ve seen areas like you describe where the aerial images are off, but not too many.
Any news on a bike mount yet?
When do you see the fireware update happening?
I haven’t been listening for the bike mount, but I hear some third party mounts are starting to show up. I don’t have any insider info on a firmware update, but I would expect it before too long.
Are the 3-D TopoQuads 2.0 Classic USGS 7.5-Minute Quad Maps DVDs available for purchase from delorme.com compatible with the pn20? [editor combined] I received new pn20 today. I have a couple questions. First, when i try to reset the odometer by itself, it does not reset. It only resets when i reset all trip data, odometer, avg. speed, moving time, stopped time, etc. Additionally, after i reset this trip data, and if i am sitting still/not moving, the odometer begins to count upward in feet, although i am not moving. I assume this is not normal. Can you provide any guidance? Thanks for your great incredibly helpful website/comments.
Can I use the Geochaching program (EasyGPS) to download Geocache waypoints to the PN-20?
Dan - Check out this thread about 3D topoquad compatibility. Regarding the trip odometer, I recall that fix being put into a firmware update. It hasn’t been released yet, but look for it n the next firmware update.
Bill
The new firmware update was released today which includes many of the fixes people have been looking for.
Will the PN-20 (a) show me the directions for driving a day or two to some destination, then (b) show the routing for a 60 mile on road bike trip or 40 mile off road bike trail trip, and (c) reverse the road trip for getting back? Can all this be done without reloading the PN-20? Without taking my laptop to load segments?
Hans, it will do those things (although I haven’t tried a road roue of that long… ie multiple days), but keep in mind the unit isn’t designed primarily for road navigation and thus it will have limitations of speed in calculating a route, no voice prompts. Creating routes on desktop software ahead of time is faster, but if your device needs to recalculate a route you might be in for a long wait.
I am looking for GOS unit that will be used only for geocaching. I was looking at the 60csx, but came across the PN20. Considering that it will only be used for geocaching, which of the two would you recommend? Or is there another? My only must haves are a color screen, and it would be nice to have some good maps (or at least the ability to get them), since the base maps in my current Garmin Etrex is not very detailed. It’s not fun when you’re going from point A to point B and and have no idea how to actually get there (unless you’re a crow).
I think you are looking in the right direction. I like using the PN20 for geocaching due to how I can manage my finds (and not yet founds) from within their topo usa software. The maps you get out of the box with the PN20 are better than those from Garmin.
Will the PN-20 output its GPS location coordinates to my laptop? That is, will it perform the function equivalent to the LT-20?
Yes, you can view your position read from the PN-20 on a laptop. I can’t say if it does it the exact same way as the LT-20, but the desktop software can get coordinates from the PN20.
I have Topo 6 that I purchased fairly recently. Can I just buy the device. If so I haven’t found that on the web site.
I don’t believe so, but you should call DeLorme to confirm. The reason is partially attributed to the ADP credits you get with the software.
In response to Ron on 5 May concerning pairing PN-20 and laptop. I just did that last Wed. on a 160 mile trip from VA to PA, it followed along flawlessly. Moving map, speed, and direction were right on the entire trip.
Remember, “water proof” is at a static condition, as the units are not totally sealed.
In a humid area at sea level (Hilo, HI) drive 28 miles to Volcano Park (~4000′ elev.), place your GPS on the roof of your car to acquire signal, and moisture will usually condense on the inner face of the screen and the cumulative damage begins. I have had three Garmin Etrex units fail quickly.
The units are vented to prevent mechanical damage from pressure changes, thus the moisture problem.
Some have success with ziplok-type bags.
My fix is to store and carry my current GPS 60 in a small sealed box (Pelican 1050) with silica gel pack (Hydrosorbent SG-40) that can be re-activated. So far, so good.
OOPS…I should have said “carry to the usage area”.
I carry the GPS exposed on my sternum strap, with a ziplok ready in case of rain. No real probs with using while in the bag.
OK. I have read through all of these postings and I am convinced that I would rather have the PN-20 over the 60CSX if I were using it in the US. However, I will be using it in Europe. Just to verify; the only maps/images/topos I will be able to use are the default world base map. I would have no ability to import maps/images/topos from any other sources. I would only be able to use waypoints for navigation off road. If this is all true than wouldn’t it make better since for me to get the 60CSX because even if its maps are less detailed they are available and I not going to be able to use images anyway because they will not be available?
JW, I think you assessment is correct.
Does the Earthmate PN-20 generate RINEX files that can be post-processed for greater accuracy?
I have a Etrex with software ver 3.30. I use it when I go backpacking and for Geochacing. Now I find it works great as long as I am not in the woods. Then I lose satalites. I also find when I am Geochacing that it bounces a lot. I keep looking at the PN20 and was wondering just how much of an approvement it would be? Would it grab the satalites easier in the woods? Would it hold them once I got them and would the bounce be reduced? All in relation to the Etrex?
Greg, I may not be able to help you, but if you list your exact model, someone should. Even all the “basic yellow” Etrex are not the same.
Bruce - Not that I know of but you should check with DeLorme.
Greg - I believe you will find it performs better than the eTrex, but maybe not quite as good as the 60CSx.
Do you feel that the PN-20 is ready for prime time? Or are there enough shortcomings or design flaws that it would be better to choose another brand or wait for the next generation?
I read that the PN-20 interface is slow. Do you know to what degree using a high-speed SD card (like the San Disk Ultra-II) helps in speeding things up?
Ernie, I don’t see many shortcomings or flaws with this device other than what was mentioned in the review. I think it is a great device.
Lenny - the speed is slow from the internal memory as well so a faster SD card wouldn’t make much of a difference. It feels a little faster with the more recent firmware updates too.
I tried a PN20. I have had a Garmin GPS V and a 2610. Problems include: I could not find a waypoint list on the PN20 for the route I had just downloaded from the computer. I could not get it to show more than the TOPO 5 map..i.e, no sat maps or DOQQ maps. I found the number of button pushes necessary to do anything with the PN 20 unbearable. I did a route with the PN20 and it showed turns, but did not label the roads. I spent about 15 hours messing with it, and called tech support three or four times. The Garmin learning curve is much easier, partly because the manual is so much better. I have had Delorme mapping programs for some years, and I hoped this was going to marry the two, but it is too hard to use. I am waiting for the easier version.
I just bought the Delorme Earthmate PN-20 and was comparing the Lat/Long output with my Garmin 76Cx.
I was quite surprised to see a significant difference in the coordinates. I then mapped these coordinates from the two GPS units in ArcView GIS and plotted them on an aerial photo I know to have less than 2 ft. error ground control. The Garmin coordinates properly placed the point on the photo and the Delorme was off by 200 ft north and 125 ft west. I consider this quite an error. Both are using WGS 84 as the map datum. Why such a large error? Anyone else with the same observation?
Paul, I think you might have a defective unit. I heard of someone else with a similar issue. DeLorme replaced it and the new device performed but better. I’ve done similar tests with the PN-20 comparing it to the output of other devices as well as comparing against known coordinates. (I’ve got family that works for the USGS.) It is never off by anywhere close to that amount. I’d give DeLorme a call.
Tim, Thanks. I installed the new OS software 1.2 for the PN-20 and now I get agreement to within 10 ft., which is acceptable for me. However, it does mean that all of you that have not downloaded the new OS might be getting less than optimal accuracy.
Tim, How does the PN-20 compare with the bushnell onix 200. They both seem to have mapping capabilities, and the onix claims to have areial photo downloads that overlay the gps display. Any thoughts. Thanks.
Q1: Are the built-in maps good enough to be used for driving directions within the United States, even when not sticking to highways? Could you please answer for the Garmin 60Csx and PN-20 both?
Q2: Can the PN-20 save trackpoints to the SD card directly, as is the case with the Garmin 60Csx? I realize the PN-20 can store 10×10k trackpoints in regular memory.
I will be riding a motorcycle around the Western and Soutwestern states. I’ll use paper AAA maps. I will be taking digital pictures and want to record GPS trackpoints continuously so that I can geo-tag my pictures after the fact, by interpolation.
For the purpose of this trip, I’d like to use a GPS for finding driving (riding) directions when necessary, and will be avoiding highways mostly.
I also want to use the GPS for backcountry skiing, hiking, etc.
And I am a programmer, so would like to have good device-computer interfaces and possibly APIs.
Should I get the PN-20? The Garmin 60Csx? Something else entirely? Both are more pricey than I hope to spend, but …
Thanks!
Ben, you won’t likely be happy with the road navigation functions on either the PN-20 or the 60CSx. Road navigation isn’t their primary task and they are both cumbersome to use for road navigation.
The PN20 can only store tracks on the SD card right now. I’ve heard they might change the 10×10k limit to allow more tracks, but the same number of total points in future firmware updates.
I think you might really need multiple devices for the task. One that would record tracklogs and be used for skiing, hiking, etc. The other for auto navigation.
Dear Tim,
I am not sure if this is the right place for this question. Let me know if I am out of line. On your post 166, you say that neither the PN 20 nor the 60Cs is good for road navigation. I presently have a Garmin 2610, and was hoping to find something that was not too big that had batteries and could be used on a motorcycle, hiking, bicycleing, so it needs to be able to do both. Is that possible? What else should I look at?
Justin, good question. Check out our article on hybrid GPS devices and why we don’t care for any of the multitasking GPS type devices right now. I try to keep discussion short in these comments (as you can see this page is getting long) so for longer conversation feel free to drop by the forums where we can extend the conversation not specifically relevant to the PN-20.
Justin, Tim, I agree with everything said in the hybrid GPS devices article; however, I’ve been using a 76csx (formerly a 76cs) as a hybrid for several years now, and I’m simply delighted with it. I carry it with me everywhere (in a pocket) and I can’t tell you the number of times it’s come in handy.
As the article said, there are issues. For me, the lack of spoken audio is the biggest. The full investment in maps does make the total price fairly high, but no higher than a full-fledged auto gps. I have topo usa, city navigator NA, city navigator europe, and a free greece topo mapset all on 4 microSDs, so they all come with me easily as well, along with a car adapter and a couple of AA battery sets.
I think the article exaggerates on the number of keypresses needed to enter addresses - 10-20 is more the norm, not hundreds, but it definitely can be a pain. But I don’t get lost anymore - ever…and on any trip, no matter where, no matter how spontaneous, I find what I need easily wherever I am…gas, food, hotel, whatever else.
I just got back from a trip to Rome; I used the GPS, not local paper maps, to get around, to aid the shopping experience, etc. With europe maps, available user POI downloads, and new internet mapping search/support, the experience just keeps getting better. At this point I really couldn’t imagine life without my 76csx.
I’m thinking of buying a new GPS, the new Garmin Etrex Vista HCX. However the Delorme Earthmate is very interesting. I will be using it mostly for geocaching and hiking in the woods. Which unit would you recommend? Larry
I think I am going to break down and buy a GPS unit. Do you think the PN-20 is the way to go for a first time GPS Unit. My father in-law has the Garmin 60CSX and he really likes it. The aerial mapping is not a big deal to me and I noticed that was one of the reasons you like the PN-20. Would you still select the PN-20 over the Garmin 60CSX if there wasn’t the aerial mapping? I also heard some complaints about the Topo 6.0 not being very user friendly. Thanks for the great review!
I noticed that in the comparison of Garmin and DeLorme maps in post # 20 the USGS map in the middle of the top row is in black and white. Are the USGS maps that come from their free website downloads displayed in color on the pn-20 screen? What is the scale of the DeLorme Topo USA maps that come with the pn-20; can you get 1:24,000 scale on them? Do the delorme topo maps show areas of tree cover and areas without tree cover on the pn-20? The pn-20 has an altimeter, doesn’t it? Is it small enough to fit into a pocket? Finally, have you heard if it is possible to get a signal from inside a passenger airliner? Sorry for so many questions, but I am completely new to GPS. Thanks.
Jerome, I’ll let a pn-20 expert answer those questions (but I think the answer to all is “yes”). re: airliner signal, the answer is also “yes”, but you need to be close to a window, and a gps is not an approved device on all airlines…read the fine print or ask someone. I read an airline/gps allowance list somewhere (maybe this site). I’ve found it’s quite entertaining - reading a speed of >500mph, comparing altimeter (~5000ft) with gps altitude (~30000ft), watching the list of nearest McDonalds zoom by, etc…but I’m easily entertained
Greg - There are a few comparisons in these comments about the 60CSx versus the PN-20. If you need more specific info, let us know.
Jerome - Yes, the USGS maps are in color. They are scanned USGS 7.5 minute series, so they are 1:24,000 scanned maps. The DeLorme maps do show tree coverage. There is no barometric altimeter, just the altimeter derived from GPS/WAAS. The size is included in the specs along the top left, I’m not sure how big your pocket is. I have picked up a signal inside an airplane.
Hello, very imformative site you have here. I was wondering how you feel the PN-20 compares to the Magellan Crossover? I am looking for an all in one GPS that I can basically go hiking with and use in my car. I have a feeling that the topo software is going to be much better on the PN-20 but I wasnt sure what limitations it has as far as using it in a car. Does the PN-20 give audible commands when driving down the road? Do you know of any other all in one GPS units that are on the market or will be coming out soon? I’m just trying to get the best all in one GPS that is out there right now. Thanks so much for your time and effort!
Jonathan, check out what we have to say about hybrid GPS devices like the crossover. Basically the Crossover and the PN-20 are at opposite ends of the spectrum. The Crossover is an auto GPS at heart which tries to offer topo maps. The PN-20 is a handheld outdoor GPS which tries to auto route. They both perform their primary task well, and their secondary task not so well. The topo maps on the PN20 are far superior to the Crossover. The topo maps on Magellan’s handhelds are even superior to those on the Crossover. The PN20 gives “tones”, but no verbal directions.
Tim, have you gotten the chance to test the pn-20 in dense forest cover? If so, how did it do? This is where I plan to use it a lot. I take it that the best batteries for longer life are the lithium rechargeables. Why is the pn-20 with the lithium batteries on the delorme web site so much more expensive - about $40 more than the unit by itself?
It seems to perform great under dense forest cover. It probably isn’t quite as good as a SiRFstarIII, but very close.
The $40 package includes the battery, battery charger, car charger, other charger connectors, etc. I too wish you could just buy the battery and charger, but you get lots more “stuff” with the extra package and thus the extra cost.
I recently purchased the PN-20. Im finding the Topo 6 maps are incredibly inaccurate. In my area, Berkeley CA, the alignment of the street map is typically off by 100-200 feet! When I drive around the unit tells me I’m in between roads. Sometimes the maps are so drastically misaligned that the device tells me I’m driving on an adjacent road. I also observed the misalignment by comparing the aerial (or USGS topo) maps I downloaded to the vector