DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20
The DeLorme PN-20 represents a new breed of GPS devices. I’ve been waiting a long time for a GPS device to show me not only a map with my current position, but show my position on aerial photography and satellite imagery. Think of this new type of GPS as having Google Earth, GPS enabled, in your pocket.
Physical
Opening the box, here is what comes with the PN-20. The device itself is nice and small, weighing just over five ounces. If you were to compare the size to the 60CSx you will find it is a similar size. It is a little thicker, not quite as tall, and about the same width. It is very light making it easy to travel with.
You also get a USB cable, two AA batteries, a lanyard, printed user manual, and a copy of Topo USA version 6.0. Inside the Topo USA product is a coupon good for 400 sq. km of aerial data packets (ADP) which is where the aerial photography and satellite imagery comes from. The lanyard is too short to allow you to use the device when wearing the lanyard.
The outer skin of the PN-20 is a rubberized material which makes the device easy to handle and waterproof. I sunk my PN-20 for about ten minutes then opened the battery case and found no evidence of any water getting in. The buttons are tall enough and stiff enough that they can be used with a medium weight set of gloves.
Inside the battery compartment is a secret slot where the SD card goes in. In my tests the battery compartment is quite waterproof as advertised and I didn’t have any trouble after submerging my PN-20 in water.
Screen
Upon starting up the device the first thing I noticed was that the screen is very bright. The screen is a similar overall size to that of other handheld GPS devices with a resolution of 176×220 pixels. I didn’t have any trouble viewing the display in bright sunlight conditions.
After turning on the DeLorme PN20 the initial fix took only about ninety seconds. Subsequent signal acquisitions have taken only a few seconds. Not too bad at all for a 12 channel receiver (STMicroelectronics) although you won’t likely get any fix indoors. The receiver is WAAS enabled. Like normal satellite views the height of the bar indicates the relative strength of the signal from that satellite. The color of the bars will change based on other information from the satellite. If the bar is red, information from that satellite is being received, but not yet used. Green means that satellite is being tracked and data is being used. Blue means the satellite is being tracked, data is being used, and WAAS correction information is being received from that satellite. You can also disable the GPS reception to save on battery life while setting up your trip on the device.
Map Display
The map page is where all of the action happens on this GPS. You can choose if you want to view Aerial Photography, USGS Topo maps, DeLorme Topo maps, or Satellite imagery. There is also a base map which displays major roads of the entire world. (Nice!) You can also pick which order you would like to layer the maps if your highest priority type of map is not available in the current view.
Being able to view a variety of map types can be extremely helpful in a number of situations and I’ve been waiting for this type of GPS product for a long time. Lots of information can be interpreted from aerial photography and satellite imagery that you could not get from a simple topo.
However, there were a couple of small disappointments in the implementation. First, the interface was slow. Switching between map types was slow. Zooming and panning was slow. Overall it just seemed like the PN-20 could have used a faster processor to process the data. My second disappointment (but one that I was expecting) is that the aerial photography isn’t quite as good in many areas as other data sources. For example in my area the aerial photography used by Google Maps and Google Earth is much more detailed (and in color) than the data currently available from DeLorme. My third disappointment was that I did manage to lock up the device a few times while working with the map display. Sometimes I was panning the map, sometimes switching from one layer to another, and sometimes when just paging to the map display.
Update: I just saw the following from DeLorme regarding the quality of the aerial imagery:
By the way, we plan to offer for sale downloads of much more recent and high-res imagery for about 20 states soon. Details will be communicated here and in the Netlink tab. Oftentimes the free ADPs will be good enough for what you need but we do want to get better imagery out for sale to those who want it.
Despite those shortcomings, I’m still really excited about map views on this GPS. After-all just a couple of months ago there were no GPS products on the market like this one.
Update 2: I’ve also written an article about how/why aerial images are useful on a GPS including one real-world story with PN-20 maps and another story where I wish I had them.
Topo USA 6.0
The Topo USA software is where you will setup everything on your computer and then transfer the data to the PN-20. For example I’m planning a mountain snowshoe hike soon so I went into TOPO USA and downloaded the Aerial Data Packets for the surrounding area. I also plotted a few important waypoints (such as the trailhead location). I saved the package and then transferred the maps and waypoints to the GPS. There is also a geocache along the way so I downloaded the file (.loc and GPX both work) from the geocaching site and loaded it into the device as well. Paperless caching…. yum.
You can transfer your data to either the internal storage (75 MB) or onto an SD card (up to 2 Gb). I highly recommend the SD card option for two reasons. The first is that the transfer goes much faster when copying onto an SD card than it does into the internal memory, especially with larger maps. The second reason is that you will likely run out of room in the internal memory fairly quickly.
Another handy feature for my snowshoe hike was the elevation profile. Is the route I’ve picked up the mountain realistic in the winter? An elevation profile gave me my answer and provided me with a preview of how difficult certain sections of the hike would be.
One disappointment is that Topo USA can create three types of routes, direct routes, trail routes, and road routes. Only direct routes and road routes are currently supported on the PN-20 so the trail route I created for my snowshoe trip was converted into a direct route. DeLorme has told me that they hope to address this issue in the future.
On another note, I’ve had no trouble using the DeLorme PN-20 and Topo USA on my Mac via Parallels. Everything runs very smooth and I never encountered any issues running everything from my Mac.
Other Features
I really like the “find” function. When traveling to new areas the PN-20 can be used as a great travel guide. For example on a recent trip out of state I clicked the find button, asked it to show ‘Natural Features’, and then selected ‘Geologic Formation’ for the category. A list of nearby POIs matching that query displayed and I found some interesting new spots to navigate to.
There are tons of other features worthy of being mentioned. You can store up to 10 tracklogs with 10,000 points each. I tested this out by watching just how many circles I ran around in while trying to find a geocache the other day. Tracks can be recorded by distance or by time. There is also a screen which shows sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset, and the stage of the moon. I’ve used this type of information frequently in the past to figure out if I can make it to a certain destination by sunset. There is also a tides page which will show a nice graph of the tide times and heights for locations nearest you. I’ll certainly use that while kayaking in the ocean this summer.
Update: A few people have asked about certain fields or pieces of data to see if they are available. Here is a list of the data/fields you can view:
Back on Course, Battery Life, bearing, Coordinates:primary, Coordinates:secondary, Course, Distance to Finish, Distance to Next Stop, Distance to Next Turn, Elevation, Elevation Max, Elevation Min, ETA at Finish, ETA at Next Turn, ETA at Next Stop, Finish, GPS Accuracy, GPS Status, Heading, Moonrise/Moonset, Next Stop, Next Turn, Next Turn Arrow, Odometer, Speed, Speed:average, Speed:maximum, Speed:Moving Average, Sunrise/Sunset, Time/Date, Time to Finish, Time to Moonrise/set, Time to Next Stop, Time to Next Turn, Time to Sunrise/set, Trip:Odometer, Trip:Time Moving, Trip: Time Stopped, Trip:Time Total, Velocity Made Good, Vertical Speed.
You can customize which of those fields you would like displayed on various screens.
Price and Options
The PN-20 comes in a few different configurations. There is the standard configuration as I’ve described for $379. There is also a “Power Travel Kit” which includes a rechargeable lithium ion battery for $410. I highly recommend this option instead of constantly replacing AA batteries. You can also charge that battery from the USB cable attached to your computer.
And finally there is the “Deluxe” bundle for $450 which includes the lithium ion battery as well as an SD card reader and 1 GB SD card. If you don’t have an SD card and reader already I highly recommend this option because as noted above the map transfer speed directly to the internal memory on the PN-20 can be slow.
Overall, this is a fantastic device and it leads the way in a new breed of GPS devices which can display aerial photography and satellite imagery. For people who have dreamed about having a Google Earth type product in a handheld device…. this is it. My biggest complaint about the device is that the map display can be sluggish, but the type of activities where this device will be most commonly used (hiking, geocaching, biking, kayaking, etc) are not “fast” activities themselves and thus the interface speed won’t likely interfere with your activities much.
Lots of people often ask me “what do you do with all of the GPS devices after you’ve tested them?” Some I purchase and then sell, some are on loan from the manufacturer and get sent back, and some I purchase and keep. I’m keeping my Earthmate PN-20… you can’t have it. 
Video: A Maine news organization recently ran a story on the PN20, you can view the video where they take it geocaching.
| Store | Rating | Best Prices |
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Compare all prices on the DeLorme Earthmate PN-20 Handheld / Trail GPS ranging from $138.00 to $399.95. | ||
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[...] Links mentioned in this show: The Jersey Geocaching Podcast GPS News: DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20 Review at GPSreview.net Geocaching with the Garmin Nuvi at EverythingDigital.org [...]
I’ve been looking for a GPS for some time now and I was all set to purchase the Garmin 60CSx, when I noticed this review. (Liked the review btw!) One thing that stands out is the Google Earth type 3D maps. The only problem is this GPS doesn’t have as many other features like the Garmin does. Can we expect to see more of these types of devices in the near future made by other brands? Is it possible for any other company to update the firmware on a current GPS to implement this technology, or would a whole new GPS device be required? In short, I don’t want to but a device and have it become outdated in a month.
Thanks!
You mentioned “as many other features like the Garmin”. Which features are you thinking of? This might help me give you some advice.
The electronic compass/ altimeter as well as SiRF. Also, does this have ascent/descent rate, more specifically something that would give average speed/top speed for skiing or biking?
Thank you for the speedy reply!
You are correct, it does not have an electronic compass. Personally I rarely use that feature on other devices since I often have a compass with me anyway and finding a direction can be done in a couple of seconds from walking in a straight line. But that is just my own personal taste.
It doesn’t have a SiRF chip, but I’ve found the signal to be remarkable. At one point yesterday I had my PN-20 on my desk (inside) and another GPS with the SiRFstar III chipset on the desk. The PN-20 was actually tracking more satellites than the GPS with the SiRF chip. I’m not saying it is better but the chipset performance in the PN-20 is excellent.
There is a field for Vertical speed, as well as average speed, maximum speed, and moving average. Actually, it would probably be useful to list all of the fields available so I’ll go ahead in do that in just a couple of minutes and add them to the body of the post.
Hello Tim
I use a Garmin Etrex Venture on by bicycle mostly as an expensive speedometer. I was looking at the 60cx as a very large step up and I could actually load road maps into it which can’t be done on the Venture. This new Earthmate PN20 looks very interesting too. I’m looking at map cost as being a deciding factor in my purchase decision. Do you have an opinion on this?
Thanks,
Russ
If map cost is the deciding factor then certainly go with the PN-20…. You get their TOPO USA package included with the PN-20. I got a look at their car cradle last night and it looks like it should work well. I mention this because they have a bike mount coming in a few weeks I’m told from the same source so I’ve got high hopes for it.
In my opinion, the topo maps that are included at no extra cost on the PN-20 are better quality than those you would pay extra for on the 60CSx.
Hello Again Tim
Thanks for the quick response. One more question please. Since 99% of my bicycle riding is obviously done on rural roads in the USA, is the Topo map supplied with the Earthmate appropriate for this in your opinion?
Thanks,
Russ
Absolutely. The beautiful thing about the Topo data is that it does cover rural areas well. It includes roads, dirt roads, 4×4 trails, hiking trails, etc.
We live in the Blue Ridge mountains and were wondering if a unit with SiRFstar III chipset would be a better choice for driving/hiking/kayaking in this area.
Thanks,
Karen
Karen the chipset in the PN-20 is fabulous. Others have reported (and I’ve experienced myself) that in many cases the PN-20 can get a signal indoors, something I’ve only seen on other SiRFstarIII chips. I’ve been using it frequently in the car, in deep valleys surrounded by mountains, etc and so far once the signal has been acquired (which is fast) I’ve never once lost the signal or even 3D status.
Hi Tim -
Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but has DeLorme mentioned a ship date for the PN-20?
Hi Mike! The PN-20 is shipping now! It looks like you are in Maine… you can also pick them up at the Map Store in Yarmouth.
Hi Tim
I have been waiting for this product for so long now, but found myself disappointed and unable to purchase it for one reason. No electronic compass! I do alot of work in dense areas where it’s not always possible to walk a straight line fast enough to get an accurate, consistent compass reading. What a disappointment for me. My question to you (and I realize you are not Delorme), but do you think they will come out with an electronic compass version of the PN-20 in the near future?
I too have been looking at the Garmin 60CSx. I am into hiking and looking to upgrade my hand held. Do you think the PN-20 works well for hiking in size, signal strength and battery life? esp. as compared to the 60CSx.
Mark – I’m really not sure. In a way I’d probably be a better person to ask then DeLorme themselves since I hear rumors and can speculate while they will want to keep tight lipped. I haven’t heard anything about a successor to the PN-20. My instinct is that since this is their first entry into the portable handheld GPS market that they will want to gather a few months of feedback on the PN-20 before they really start to plan a new device which would make any new models a year or so away. But that is just speculation on my part.
I’d buy a nice tiny (physical) compass and attach it to the PN-20 lanyard. (Sort of joking here, I realize that might not be practical to do that in many applications.)
Mike I think you will find the PN-20 very comparible in those functions. Yes, even in signal strength. The PN-20 has the most sensitive receiver I’ve seen in awhile from a 12 channel receiver. It works great. You will find the maps that come (included) with the PN-20 superior to those you need to pay extra for with the 60CSx.
Mark,
I’ve been using the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx for about a year now and it seems to have all the features of the PN-20 and, in addition, one can get it with a barometer/compass. So I’m trying to figure out how the PN-20 is better and why one would want to buy it over the eTrex Vista.
One feature, among many, that I like about the eTrex Vista is the battery life which is over 18 hours on a single set of AA alkaline batteries. Also, the Garmin eTrex CX costs about $100-150 less than the PN-20 as well. The only negative aspect, in my view, for the Garmin series is the cost of the mapping software but you can have both Topo and Road (no satellite as far as I know.
Can you comment?
The advantage the PN-20 has over the Garmin devices is the quality of the maps, and the fact that the maps are included in the price. The topo maps that come with the PN-20 are a much better quality than those you pay extra for from Garmin. You also have access to (and get a $100 certificate for) aerial photography and satellite imagery which can be loaded on the PN-20.
So the reason someone might want the PN-20 over a Vista Cx is better maps, the ability to load aerial photos and satellite imagery as base maps into the GPS, and that you don’t need to pay extra for most of those maps.
The eTrex Vista Cx has a retail price of $321.41. Topo US retails for $116.65. Those two alone total more than the PN-20, but you still don’t have as good of a world basemap, nor aerial photography/satellite imagery, and the topo product isn’t as good.
Mark,
I’ll have to admit that the maps for the Garmin eTrex Vista CX from MapSource are not the greatest but they do the job. I’ll have to see the maps on the PN-20 to better judge which is better. However, to be correct, you should know that the CX does do auto-routing. I did buy mine for about $230, so I didn’t pay retail.
Sorry, I meant to say that the Garmin will do auto routing, but it doesn’t have the same street level detail out of the box that the PN-20 has. You are correct.
Here is a map sample. The top row is what is available out of the box with the PN-20. The middle row is what you get out of the box with Garmin. The bottom is the Garmin topo that is purchased extra.
Hi Tim,
I travel alot in Canada. Backpacking etc…
Does Delorme have a topo Canada in the works?
I haven’t heard about it, Jim.
Tim,
I purchased a Garmin 76CSx around Christmas for forestry mapping with Delorme’s XMap 5.0 Professional. Just couldn’t wait any longer for Delorme’s PN-20. I am well satisfied with the unit overall. However, I mark a lot of waypoints and categorize them using many waypoint symbols types. Unfortunately, while downloading these waypoints to my computer I loose all my categorized waypoint symbols which wind up being displayed in Delorme XMap 5.0 as “the currently active” waypoint symbol. Do you know if Garmin’s 76CSx is capable of transfering multiple waypoint symbol types to Delorme XMa[ 5.0? How does Delorme’s PN-20 handle the transferred waypoint symbols?
Garmin mapping units come with built-in, permanent basemaps that cannot be altered. These basemaps come in a variety of global designations (i.e., Atlantic basemap). Also included is a worldwide map with political boundaries and major cities. You do not have to pay extra Tim.
Barry, I don’t know the relationship between the 76CSx and Xmap since I don’t have either of those products. (Similar, but I wouldn’t want to speculate what might happen.) You can read a bit about how waypoint symbols get transferred between the PN-20 and Topo USA over here.
Tim
I took your advise earlier on the thread and tried to use a needle compass in combination with my gps to determine which direction my “go to” location was from me, while sitting still. This is an effort to do without an electronic compass on the new PN-20. So I walked to and marked 3 different waypoints with my gps, each about 100 yards from my house, but visible from my deck. I then stood on my deck and one at a time entered “go to” for each waypoint. The gps then gave me a bearing in degrees to that waypoint. When I set that bearing on my silva compass, put the needle on north, and sighted on the direction arrow, in each case the arrow was pointing slightly away from each waypoint as I visually could see the object i set the waypoint on. What am I doing wrong? Is my compass bad? gps bad? Is there a problem with the map datum I have my gps set on (wgs84)?
Mark, have you applied the firmware update released? I know that addressed some compass issues. The datum shouldn’t make a difference… the GPS receives the signal and if you want the map to display in a different datum you can, however I believe it will just convert what was sent to it.
I assume you took into account the local magnetic deviation?
TechSupp, the basemap that comes with the 60CSx is not as detailed as the basemap that comes with the PN-20. (I’m a proud 60CSx owner myself.)
For example on the PN-20 I can zoom out, scroll over to Sydney Australia, zoom in, and see good street level details. The PN-20 also comes with street level maps (all the way down to local dirt roads) for the entire USA, plus Topo for the entire USA, plus 400sq km of aerial photography and satellite imagery. To achieve that level of detail on the 60CSx you would need to purchase additional map packages and some of it (sat/aerial) isn’t available for purchase on the 60CSx.
Is there a possibility that Garmin will update to the aerial imagery the PN-20 has? Would a new device be needed or would aerial photography display on the 60CSX? I’m still stuck between the pn-20 and 60csx.
Hi Pete. I doubt Garmin will want to comment on future products, so we can only speculate. However I believe the current Garmin handhelds can only display vector data. Since the aerial images are raster data, provisions would need to be made for them to display those images.
So the question becomes did Garmin put enough hardware into the 60CSx and think ahead to where it would be able to display raster images. I don’t know the answer to that question, but I would speculate that a new model might be necessary. (Although I could be wrong.)
I’ve got to imagine that Garmin is hard at work at a handheld product with aerial photography and it is only a matter of time before something will be available.
The PN-20 looks interesting, but I’m wondering: (a) what is the battery life? (b) what is the storage required for various maps? I upgraded from a 76CS to a 76CSx recently, and I now carry full topo + auto-route maps for the entire US in a few microSD cards. The topo isn’t great but it’s functional; the auto-route is great. The batteries (2 NiMH) last for ~14hrs easily. I can’t tell if the PN-20 can equal this…I find no specs on battery life and only anecdotal storage requirements. Obviously I wouldn’t carry aerial maps for the entire US, but how many SD cards would it take just for topo + routing (and SD are ~4x larger than microSD)?
(a) Battery life is dependent on the type of battery used. I’ve been getting about 12 hours from NiMH batteries. I know other people who have been using Energizer Lithiums and getting over 20 hours.
(b) The maps take up a lot of space. There is so much data in the maps that you won’t be able to carry a huge amount of terrain on the PN-20 at one time. It also depends on which maps you add (topo, aerial, satellite, usgs) and at what zoom levels you add each type of map. So there will be a huge variation in map sizes depending on your preferences, that is why you probably only find anecdotal storage requirements.
I went hiking recently and put the topo, aerial, satellite, and USGS topo maps on my device. I only took enough area to cover around the mountain I was hiking on. The total map package was about 17 MB at the zoom levels I had set for each map type. I’ve got a similar map cut for the city I live in which took about 30 MB.
Here is another dataset to look at. I just created a map for all of Santa Clara County, Californai, but just the DeLorme Topo maps… no satellite, aerial, or USGS topo maps. The total map package size was 29 MB.
The desktop software offers many functions (importing/creating waypoints, creating trail routes, creating auto routes, etc). Therefore, I’ve found myself doing all of the work ahead of time from the desktop, then sending everything over (map packages, routes, waypoints) to the PN-20 before my adventure.
And while it seems odd at first to only have a tiny area of maps on my device at any time, most of the time I know ahead of time where I’m going. I don’t end up unexpectedly in a new state often when I wouldn’t have had a few minutes to load the maps ahead of time. It sounds like a pain, but so far it hasn’t been. Most of the time I would want to transfer routes and waypoints ahead of time anyway so adding the maps doesn’t add that much of a step.
Tim, thanks. So the battery life looks in line with the 76CSx. I probably wouldn’t have a surprise visit out of state either, but surprise visits to other counties are fairly commonplace for me – happened this last weekend, and I used the 76CSx for both auto-nav and topo. SD cards are bigger than microSD, but not THAT big – I could probably carry 4 or so. If Santa Clara Co took 29MB and it’s 1291 sq mi, all of CA (156K sq mi) should take ~3.5GB for topo + routing only, or two 2gb SD cards. Of course, USGS, aerial, or other non-vector maps would be a lot more. Another possibility (say, for a camping trip) is to carry DVD and a UMPC or sub-notebook, and install aerial/USGS to the GPS as needed. I currently use Google Earth to plot where I’m going or where I’ve been, but that requires LAN/WiFi/WAN to get the maps – so it’s hard to do in remote places. I wonder if the DVD approach (or pre-loaded DVDs like I do with Garmin maps) would make sense? Prior Topo releases limited the amount of free aerial/USGS downloads, so it might cost a fortune, whereas GEarth is free.
Don’t forget too in case you missed it. With the PN-20 you get 400sq km of their ADP data (satellite, aerial, usgs topo) included. Beyond that you need to purchase through their Topo USA application or via their website to download to your computer and then transfer to the PN-20.
I do quite a bit of outdoors work as my job. I’m a ranger responsible for search and rescue in New Hampshire. I find the 60CSx great for navigating but don’t end up using the compass or altimeter functions. I find a real compass, adjusted for magnetic declination, far more accurate, and a Suunto, Polar, or similar wrist altimeter much easier to calibrate on the fly- which given the weather changes in New England is every chance I get. As for the issue of memory and mapsets- at any time on my 60CSx I have loaded topos of the states of Maine, NH, and VT- these are places where there may be searches or I might hike for fun. Then I go for vacations to the Sierras and Mt. Rainier- so I have Topos for them loaded as well. Then again i have City Select for getting to and from searches or general travel. So with the 2GB card in my Garmin card I have to say I have major chunks of the US in both Topo and Street modes- which is good because I’ve had to suddenly go somewhere and barely had time to pack the weather-appropriate gear- not enough to think much about downloading maps. So, there is value in having large portions of land in both topo and street mode, loaded and ready to go.
That said, my question is, a. is the basemap on the DeLorme good enough to not need to load street maps? (If you’re doing just interstate driving, it’s good enough on the Garmin- otherwise not.)
b. I take it that the DeLorme doesn’t autoroute from the comments I see here?
c. as a hiker, do you think this is a significant improvement in terms of actually helping you locate yourself and navigate, and
d. when we’re on a search we routinely return to Incident Command to download our tracks- to see what areas we’ve covered- and everyone else has a Garmin- will that be a problem using two different types of units on Terrain Navigator?
Interesting info on battery life for these GPS devices. For the record, the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx battery life is over 30 hours on NiMH batteries. Manual says 32 hours (I think).
a) There are multiple levels of maps to answer this question. For the raw basemap that comes preinstalled on the PN-20, no it is not detailed enough for street routing. However there are what are called “Regional” map packages which do supply regional street level routing. For example there is one that includes CT, MA, ME, NH, NY, RI, and VT that totals 13 MB in size.
b) Yes, you can do auto routing with the PN-20.
c) Yes, I do. I’m going to elaborate on this more in another article soon. But as a quick example I was hiking the other day and found that the trail wasn’t quite as described. Having all of the necessary gear and training I decided to bushwhack a little bit. Having the satellite maps I was able to pick a route that avoided the thick undergrowth of coniferous trees. I also was able to avoid an old rock slide by interpreting what looked like a clearing and matching it with tight contour lines.
d) I haven’t used Terrain Navigator, but you can download the tracks into Topo USA and then export them to (the fairly standard) GPX format.
That is a good point, Steve. I haven’t done any exhaustive battery life testing and to be honest the way I use a GPS probably isn’t representative of most users. I’ve been getting about 12 hours, but when the GPS is on I’m almost always fiddling with buttons, changing screens, recalculating routes, etc for product evaluation purposes. It is almost never just passively turned on. This keeps the backlight on and hits the CPU harder. DeLorme tells me the backlight is the biggest draw on power, so if I used the GPS like a normal user does I might get considerably more than 12 hours, but not likely 32. I’ve also been keeping WAAS turned on which is another battery hog.
Ok, I’m starting to get the picture: 400 sq mi is free (a $100 value). That’s 25 cents a square mile. But all of California downloaded would cost just under $39,000. Um…I think I’ll pass. I guess I’d really HAVE to know in advance what I need. Or stick with my 76CSx plus Google Earth + TerraServer (for topo), for free. I have TopoUSA 5.0, and while I like the graphics & content over MapSource/Garmin, I’ve found (a) it’s painfully slow even on a new, fast desktop computer, and (b) the UI is severely weird/hard to use. It sounds like they have a few performance probs to work out on the PN-20 from the review. Maybe I’m missing something here?
I’m not sure you are missing anything specific. I’ve heard something about a program where you can buy bulk sections of their ADP data on CD/DVD for less, but don’t have any specific info on it. Yes, you would need to know in advance what areas you need covered.
I’ve been running Topo USA 6 and it seems to be speedy, perhaps there were some performance improvements in the newer version. And yes, the UI is a little strange at first if you are not used to other DeLorme products.
I did feel that the PN-20 could have used a faster processor, some of the screen redraws were a little slow. I’ve found that when cutting the maps and taking only the layers I know I want at fewer zoom levels the draw time is faster.
The PN-20 won’t be for everyone. But if you have a need for aerial/sat maps on GPS and can plan ahead to package the maps you need it can be great.
I ride off road dirt bikes, will this pickup signals if I carry it in a back pack or pocket while riding?
I’d try to keep it towards the top of a backpack or in an upper pocket where it will have as clear of a sky view as possible. But yes, I’ve thrown the PN-20 in the top of my backpack and it continued to log with good reception.
very interesting.
Tim ?
I may be in the wrong place to ask this question, but here goes.
What stores have the GPS pn-20 on their shelves so I can hold one in my hands and ask questions.
I don’t do anything your regular readers do. I just drive around, like in Amish country in Ohio- Penn- Mich-and other sight seeing places. I have GPS on the laptop– but my wife don’t like being in the trunk while all the stuff is on the front seat. I would like a smaller unit when we travel.
zip code is 43537 Maumee OH ( I say there-Toledo is our suburb ? ) I want to see one before I send for one. Thank you Don Zeiter
It is currently only available from DeLorme. Once production levels ramp up (later this Spring I’m told) it will start to become available at more retailers. But for now it is only available straight from DeLorme. So you can’t get your hands on one now, but feel free to ask any questions you might have.
DeLorme also has a 30 day guarantee, buy it, use it, and if you don’t like it send it back.
Hi Tim
I was wondering if you knew the quaility of imagery for areas outside the US? I will be going to West Papau and would love to take one along for a test ride. On the point, can you load up your own imagery (I have some Ikonos) or do you have get it all through DeLorme?
Lastly, how much can you store on the GPS, or can you use memory cards for more imagery?
Thanks
I don’t believe you can get the ADP imagery for outside of the US. Specs are along the top left of the page. 75MB internal and then you can use SD cards (up to 2 GB) for additional space.
I have used DeLorme’s Topoquad software for many years, and own several of the CDs, which contain all of the 1:24,000 quads for specific states. Is it known if these can be uploaded via the Topo USA software interface? It would be nice to have quads from this source. I’m not so interested in the digital imagery in the ADPs.
Great review! You stated that the unit is waterproof. Do you know if it floats?
Edward – I don’t believe those would work, but I’m not 100% sure. You get Topo USA with the PN-20 which includes all of DeLorme’s Topo maps for the USA. The USGS topos you can get through the ADPs.
Phil It will float depending on which batteries you use. With cheap alkaline batteries it will sink but with the lithium ion battery it will float. Once the ice melts this spring and I can get the kayak out I’m going to purchase a little key float to tie to the lanyard just in case…. or for those times I forget to charge the Li-Ion battery and use alkalines.
I read mentions of 400 sq mile of the aerial maps come with it, but, I seem to recall that is really 400 square kilometers. That is a LOT less area! That is worth $100? My gosh, they are like Kodak, sell the camera cheap and make money on the film. Or, buy an HP4600 laser printer and spend $1000 on a 4 color cartridge load.
As far as I am concerned, that little feature is keeping me from ordering this attractivec sounding PN-20. I remember back in the early days of personal computing, a CD containing 1000 fonts was priced at thousands of dollars. Now, fonts are like water.
Yes, I read 400sq km rather than sq mi as well, and that would be a lot less area. However, even 400sq mi @ $100 still seems pretty steep for me when it’s available free in other ways – if you have internet connectivity. Google maps, Google Earth, MS Live Local, and Mapquest all have real terrain data for free, and Terraserver and others provide topo maps for free. All (or almost) take lat/lon as input. My little cell phone can view any this for $0.10/MB + connect time on demand…and usually when I care (weekends), connect time is free. It’s only $0.10 because I don’t pay for internet bandwidth up front at all…this is also fairly expensive and only works where cell connectivity is possible, but I only download exactly what I need, exactly when I need it – no guessing beforehand. Of course, a combined, integrated mechanism would be a lot less complicated – they exist (cell phone + gps) but I don’t have one yet.
Net result, the value of the PN-20 over other solutions is still somewhat dubious in my book.
Yea Charles, it depends how you would use the data. You get the entire US via Topo USA but you need to pay for the aerial imagery.
As an example, I went hiking last weekend and downloaded ADP packets covering the trail/mountain I was hiking and any of the surrounding area I might find myself in if I wondered off-trail. I needed a total of 10 sq km of the ADP packets which cost $2.50. To me, it was worth the $2.50 for that trip. Going on a trip every weekend at that rate and I’d burn through the $100 in about nine months.
You can also order ADP packets in bulk, delivered on CD for much cheaper (I think it is .04 per packet versus .25 you pay for download) if you need to cover lots of area.
Charles,
This is why I was previously asking about the DeLorme state CDs. I have since called DeLorme, and the person I spoke with there claims that the unit will take quads from the state sets for Topoquads 3-D. If so, that is good news, as these are about a hundred dollars a state, and I already own the states I need.
Even an area of 20 miles by 20 miles is pretty minimal, but (as you point out) 400 km is trifling. I have no need for the aerial or satellite images–interesting, but a novelty. However, a mapping GPS with USGS quads is a whole different proposition. That’s useful and the next step for which I’ve been waiting for years.
Incidentally, FWIW I still believe in backcountry travel with map and compass and observational navigation, but the GPS is a very handy extra tool. Having the same map (the 7.5 minute quad) on both the GPS and paper is a huge improvement over a quad plus a rudimentary topo along the lines of the Garmin Mapsource.
Ted
So as I mentioned above I do search and rescue in New Hampshire. What is the advantage of purchasing the “topoquad” of New Hampshire? I’d be willing to pay $100 if the advantage over the included maps was significant.
Dave
DeLorme’s FAQ for the PN-20 has been updated to say that it’ll accept the topos from the Topoquads.
I currently have the Garmin 60CSx and find its rudimentary topo map with its serious lack of detail to be frustrating, its inability to have both the topo map and the streets map active at the same time is frustrating, and its auto-routing function can be downright dangerous! For example, I was at Stovepipe Wells in Death Valley, and asked it to route me to the town of Darwin. It routed me up Darwin Wash up a non-existent road! (A road that I knew didn’t exist because I’ve hiked up Darwin Wash past the end of the road to see Darwin Falls and driven my Jeep on the *real* road that exits Darwin Wash much earlier than the non-existent one that Garmin routed me on — a real road that is a category 3 road, i.e., high clearance vehicles only with maybe some 4×4 needed in sandy areas). If I’d been some German tourists on tour driving a typical rental car, the Garmin 60CSx could have *KILLED* me with its faulty routing! So the PN-20 is looking quite interesting to me even though I have what on paper looks like a “better” GPS.
Yes, for sure the lack of detail on Garmin topo can be disappointing, and the need and process for switching between topo/routing maps can be frustrating. I have a 70csx; I really like it, but I agree with this. It’s a total pain to switch back and forth, thru 3 “screens” and 5-6 button presses for each switch.
As for the routing problems – I’ve traveled alot without an alternate paper map, both on and off road, and yeah, I occasionally find mistakes too, sometimes big ones. If someone were to show that another GPS had more trustworthy maps, I’d be very interested. I’ve just naively assumed that all the mapping is somewhat inaccurate. A few times I’ve been able to compare topo with routing maps to interpolate and find my way over mistakes.
Are other mapping products (DeLorme’s) really more mistake-free? Plus, for me at least, it’s kind of important to have the maps with me, and not have to go back home, download them, and then leave again.
To be truthful, all mapping products, be they Garmin/Mapquest or Delorme/Earthmate will have errors. I was in Springfield, VA and trying the Delorme re-routing with US Atlas and their older Earthmate product. Their mapping data base put me on a road that was a dead end. The Mapquest data base was more accurate and showed this road as a dead end and didn’t try to re-route me through it. So, bottom line, all data bases have errors that could get you in trouble. I’ve often wondered if that guy who died in Oregon this past winter had a GPS system with him. Does anyone know?
We are getting off-topic a little bit here from the PN-20. We can discuss map accuracy further in the gps forums. But it is my understanding he didn’t have a GPS but printed directions from (I think) MapQuest. That is what I’ve heard through net sources and don’t have any info to backup my memory.
In answer to Dave’s S & R query, it seems to me that there would be an advantage primarily if you use USGS quads in the field. Then (assuming that the Topoquads indeed are uploadable–I would call DeLorme yourself on this) your quad map and the map displayed on the PN-20 should be identical.
A further advantage is that (though it varies a bit) most USGS quads have contours at 20 ft intervals (though this occasionally varies, as in the Adirondacks in the Eastern High Peaks region, where they went metric). I believe (and I’m sure I will be corrected if wrong) that TopoUSA 6 included in the DeLorme bundle shows intervals only at 100 ft intervals. Small cliffs etc. that may be hidden in TopUSA should show up on the quad, at least to the extent that you will see the bunched contours.
Best,
Ted
The Topo USA maps, cut into the PN-20 can be set to display up to as fine as 10 ft intervals. This depends on the setting you have made in Topo USA (contour level detail) as well as the current zoom setting on the PN-20. You can see conversation about contour levels on the PN-20 over here.
Tim,
Interesting (in regard to the contours). However, my question is what that data is based on, and that’s not discussed on the link you provide. The USGS contours are based on survey, though naturally subject to error (the margin of which is discussed somewhere on their website–I don’t recall the specifics).
What’s not clear to me from the discussion cited is what the elevation model on which the ten-foot contour level is created is based. Is this simply an interpolation? If that’s the case, there’s no new information gained by using the ten-foot model over the hundred-foot model, other than perhaps better visualization of the terrain. If however the ten-foot contouring is based on an elevation model of that level of vertical resolution, than that is indeed terrific. Tim — do you know what the story is on this? I’d very much like to know.
Ted.
I don’t know the answer to that Edward, however I can ask them (or you can too). There is some discussion about their elevation data here, but the discussion doesn’t seem to be totally conclusive.
Quick question- In the DEMO on the DeLorme site, the samples of maps of different types don’t seem to include the shaded relief version shown in what seems like a screenshot of the PN-20 above. I’m referring to the one with gloves, tent, and Incident Command. So can the unit display 3D views or can you only do that on your PC? Thanks.
I’m not quite sure I follow your examples, but I think I can answer the question. The PN-20 cannot display 3D views. The included Topo software (PC) can.
I knew I probably wasn’t asking the question correctly- there is a picture near the top of this column that almost looks like a 3D shaded relief map- there are icons for “Command Post” “gloves found” and “backpack found” on the picture. I’m curious – was that picture a screenshot from the unit or from the PC? It was hard to tell- maybe it’s not really a 3D shaded relief- the picture is kind of small. dave
That is one of the SAT-10 photos. It isn’t really shaded relief. Some of the very dark spots are lakes, others are probably natural shadows when the sat photo was taken. You can see that area here.
OK, that’s very helpful- it looks like in some cases the SAT 10 photos can be very useful, especially when they give a sense of topographic relief- which is sometimes hard to figure out in the field when you’re mildly hypothermic. Once I’ve saved up enough to purchase this unit I’ll spend the $100 credit on the region we do most of our searches in. Is there any way to see on the web the SAT 10 pics of that region, or should I just imagine that it will be somewhat downgraded version of the Google Earth view of that area?Thanks again,
Dave
Couple of notes. You can purchase bulk data cheaper on CD (.04/unit versus .25) than via download. There are now five types of images you can use:
DOQQ – Aerial Photography (b&w) (raster)
SAT10 – Satellite Imagery (raster)
3DTQ – USGS Topo Quads (raster)
TOPOUSA6 – The DeLorme Topos (vector)
CDOQQ – Aerial Photography (color) (raster) (only some areas available right now)
The image you are referencing above is from SAT10 which is the lowest resolution of the raster images.
Hey Dave, re: SAT 10 pics on the web – not sure if this will help, but there is a VERY cool mashup that consolidates Google maps, topo maps, DOQ and NEXRAD imagery. So, with the press of a button, you can switch views, much as you can on the PN-20. Of course you need web access to do it though. Here is an example w/ roughly the same geoloc as previously posted:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=48.71199,-113.71383&z=15&t=T&marker0=48.71199%2C-113.71383%2CN48%25C2%25B042.720W113%25C2%25B042.830
THanks Mark- that’s a very interesting site- I will use it to print out maps of areas for future searches.
Looks like the PN-20 would make a great replacement for my Meridian Color w/ the ill-supported Mapsend Topo. Maps would be current and battery life should be better. With the MC, I loose my batteries even with the unit off!
Any word about interfacing with future versions of Street Atlas that support street level Canada? I have relatives in Ontario that I like to visit.
Glenn, I haven’t heard anything regarding SA support or Canadian maps.
I need to make a map of my firing range – about 1/2 mile wide by 2 miles deep (DOD Ft. Carson)
I have a Delorme LT-20 and laptop. I spent about 8 1/2 hours one Sunday mapping the 100 or so Targets and routes from one target to another (avoiding the “waddies” (BIG long hole in ground))
I really need this info on a map or GPS as we work rotating shifts and my turn in the dark is coming soon.
I have this mapped out on TOPO 6.0 – Can I download this into the PN-20 and keep the tracking AND the markers that I have on the laptop – which is a 3 letter abbreviation for the target type and the pit # IE #37.
Being a firing range we are way out from the city lights. And – I will get the call… Hey Kevin – Go to pit 78 and fix… you get the idea – finding it in the dark with no idea where ‘it’ is while at the same time avoiding all the things that can hurt you (did I tell you about the waddies?)( no – no idea why the call them that!).
I guess what I am getting to – is, in your opinion – will this be a good tool – for this purpose? Thank you for your time and help!
Kevin, I think that would be a great use of the PN-0. If you already have the fixes loaded into topo USA as waypoints then you could just transfer them over to the PN-20. You could load up the routes ahead of time and then activate them (or create them) as needed on the PN-20. Sounds like exactly what it was designed for.
I see that the PN-20 now has an electronic compass built into it. That is the least of my concearn. Would anybody know with this new update did anything get done with the processor? Alot of reviews I’ve read said that it’s slow and locks up?
Thank-you
Robert
Not sure where you read that info Robert, but the PN-20 does not have an electronic compass. Only one device has been released so there have been no processor changes.
I got a flyer in the mail from DeLorme and it was comparing the PN-20 with a couple of other devices. And it said the PN-20 has a compass.
I went to both DeLorme and Earthmates web sites and they both show a screen shot of a compass on the PN-20. Which was why I was asking about a processor update.
Unless I’m misreading or misunderstanding something I’m sorry to have wasted anybodys time.
Robert
Nope, not wasting anyone’s time at all. We’re here to help sort it all out!
There is a compass, but it is not what is commonly known as an “electronic compass”. An electronic compass is specialized equipment with a device which can determine what direction the device is facing without movement (like a traditional magnetic compass).
However most GPS devices determine direction by looking at your movement. If it knows where you were 5 seconds ago and knows where you are now, provided you moved within that timespan it will let you know what direction you last moved in.
So the PN-20 does have a compass, but it can only tell you the direction when you are moving (or what direction your last movement was). It does not have an electronic compass which would tell you the direction without movement.
Thanks for your input!
One other question – Will it display the tags I have given it in TOPO 6.0?
Tags? Or waypoints? You can transfer waypoints to the PN-20. I’m still a little bit of a rookie with Topo USA, but if you mean items in a waypoint layer from the draw tab, yes. (Otherwise I probably don’t know what tags are yet.)
Can the backlight be turned off to conserve battery life? Are there multiple levels of backlight – high, medium, and low such as on the eXplorist?
The backlight can be turned off, yes. The backlight is the biggest draw on battery power. There is a slider where you can set 11 different brightness levels. You can also set how long you want the backlight to stay on for after pressing a button. (15 sec, 30 sec, 45 sec, 1 min, always on).
Tim,
How well would the PN-20 serve here in Alaska. Does Topo 6 cover Alaska well? I have used compasses and the Delorme Map/Gazeteer for Alaska for years and I am pretty pleased with the detail of the paper (along with USGS topos). I am looking to include electronics to improve my Hunting and Fishing data collection and to store on my PC.
Thank you!
It looks like Topo USA covers Alaska with the same resolution that other states are covered. However it doesn’t look like aerial imagery (ADP) is available for Alaska.
i have had nothing but problems with my pn-20: erroneous tracks, odometer is way optimistic, average and top speeds over 100mph faster than i was traveling, and the processor doesn’t seem to be able to handle all the info saved on sd cards (try doing a search for a city or street when you have a topo map loaded on the sd card, it freezes every time, requiring a reset).
also, my computer stopped recognizing the pn-20 over the weekend and i could no longer transfer waypoints, tracks, or routes to it.
it is going back to Delorme today… bummer. my guess is that they will have all this stuff ironed out for the next device. Delorme is a good company with some really good map software. i would, however, not recommend buying the pn-20. not yet, anyway.
Does the PN-20 have a connection for an external antenna
There is no external antenna.
I’m currently using a Magellan GPS315 and National Geographic Topo maps. When waypoints are uploaded the date and time the waypoint was created are lost.
Is there a way with the PN-20 to upload to a computer the waypoints with date and time and get that info onto the National Geographic Topo maps?
Thanks.
Perry, waypoints created on the PN20 contain the date, time, and elevation in addition to the coordinates. I’m not sure what would happen if you try to import those to NGT since I don’t have a copy, but the underlying data is there and it is available from DeLorme’s Topo USA program on import.
Just one question Tim,
If I have to buy one now,
what would you recommend to get, 60Csx or PN20?
I am not much of hardcore mountaineer but
do a lot of backroad 4wheelings and hikings.
Oh, another question…
Dose this unit display numbers in metric as well?
I really like the PN20 for the aerial photography which isn’t currently available on the 60CSx as well as the additional level of detail in the topo maps. That is important for the ways I use a handheld GPS. I also really like all of the desktop mapping options provided through the Topo USA software.
The 60CSx has (in my opinion) a more sensitive GPS chipset although the chipset in the PN20 works incredibly well. It also has an electronic compass although that feature isn’t critical for me.
The PN20 can display in statute miles, kilometers, nautical miles/feet, and nautical miles/meters.
I fish Canada a lot. What will the PN 20 screen show when I am there. Will it just be a gray screen that I can use for waypoints, tracks etc like a low end Garmin would be?
The map system on ghe PN20 looks super good for here in Norther WI. where we do our hunting and roaming the woods.
In Canada it will show you their worldwide basemap. This includes major roads, major water features, but no topographic data. I’ll try to getup a screenshot of Montreal:
Montreal Image on PN-20
[...] a few people have asked me if I’ve found aerial images on the DeLorme PN-20 important and useful. Yes! Here is why having aerial photography on a GPS can be important (and a [...]
I’m sure these are grade-school level questions. But here it goes anyway with two separate/unrelated questions:
1. Is the 60csx better than the pn-20 in tree cover? (In other words, when traveling through timber, which I do in Northern ID, would I still have RELIABLE satellite “connections”?)
2. Say I want to measure a property using the typical corner markers (rebar showing the four corners of a typically surveyed lot): would the 60csx or the pn-20 give me the distance from point A to point B (e.g., 150 feet from A to B; then 250 foot for B to C, etc.) which I could then draw on a map (Topo 6? or, using Google Earth) with the coordinates?
Hope I make sense. Your answers would be greatly appreciated since I would use the 60 csx or the pn-20 for real estate purposes in addition to personal use (tromping through the timber).
Thanks — Harry
Harry – (1) Since it is still looking like winter where I am I haven’t had a chance to test the PN-20 in dense deciduous growth yet. But the PN-20 is one of the few GPS devices that are not SiRFstarIII based (like the 60CSx) which I can often get a signal indoors.
(2) Check out this thread where I talk about mapping lots with the PN-20. You will likely get a signal faster with the 60CSx and maybe slightly more consistent results, but overall both would do the job. However with the additional mapping features offered with Topo USA where you can draw shapes objects, use layers, etc with the PN-20 you might find that software more powerful for saving and presenting that information. It would also be compatible with Google Earth if you wanted to export your tracklogs there.
Tim,
Thank you for the prompt answers!
The measuring feature that you refer to is definitely important for my purposes and the pn-20 sounds to do the job and with the drawing capability it will certainly do what I want.
As to signal strength in “dense” cover, where I do my hiking it’s primarily coniferous trees but they’re probably just as dense as decidous forests with which you’re familiar. If anyone has experience with the two gps’s — the 60csx and/or the pn-20 — in heavy (overhead) cover, your feedback would be really helpful.
TIA — Harry
I have been using DeLorme Xmap 5.0 Enterprise on my laptop with the Earthmate LT-20 GPS receiver in my vehicle. I need a compatible hand-held receiver where I can import/export track files,waypoints and shape files. Would the PN-20 be the best choice?
hi,
can anyone tell me how the reception works in a car?
Thanks!
Steve
Harry – Given that besides SiRFstarIII based devices the PN-20 is the only device where I’ve been able to get a signal inside my house, I’d say the signal quality is extremely good, but perhaps not quite as good (nor fast) as the 60CSx.
Don – I don’t believe DeLorme has made their Xmap product compatible with the PN-20 yet, but I hear they will in the future.
Steve – I haven’t had any trouble with reception in my car.
I am looking for an all purpose handheld gps unit. We would be using this unit for camping, geocaching, and on/off road use. I have spent a good amount of time reviewing numerous devices. The majority decision seems to be between the 60csx and the pn-20. My main question is if someone were to choose one of the two, which one would be the best overall choice. I realize that my question is subjective to opinion and experience, however given the list of functions and capabilities one of these must be the better choice of the two. Any insight or help from anyone would more than useful. Thanks in advance for your time.
The “better choice” often comes down to how you might use the device in comparison to other people. If I was strictly geocaching I might prefer the 60CSx for the faster satellite fix and slightly stronger receiver. For creating tracklogs, hiking, kayaking, etc I prefer the PN-20 for the aerial photography on the GPS which (as the linked article talks about) can be a huge safety tool. I also like the PN-20 for the additional detail in the topo maps and the included topo usa software for desktop mapping.
Hey,
I’m going backpacking the Europe this summer and was wondering if there are any kind of maps for the PN-20 of Europe. The mapping software are all for the US, but can we put road maps or any impages for Europe since the basic highway thing that comes with it isn’t good enough. Thanks.
Will
Will – I’m not aware of any more detailed maps that can be added beyond the world basemap that comes pre-installed.
Hey,
If you don’t know of Europe maps, can you show me screen shots of the europe road maps? i ant to see how detailed they can get, so can you show specifically shots of munich, vienna and prague?
Will, it just shows major roads and highways. You can see an image of London here.
It says Pn-20 can save 10 logs on the internal memory, then what if I am on the road for 2 weeks and need to log everyday as separate log. What’s gonna happen when it exceeds 10 logs? Can I save 4 logs on SD card?
Depends what type of post-processing you need to do with the logs. You could save multiple days into one track, then export the track in Topo USA, separate it by day, and then import them again into topo usa.
Hi! I read that the PN20 supports direct, trail and road routes, but converts trail to direct. I’ve been waiting for a unit that’ll keep trail a trail. Any hope, in your opinion, for that in the future (from this unit, especially)? What a bonus that’d be. Thanks.
You can create a trail, direct, or road route with the Topo USA software. You can transfer each of those three types of routes to the PN20. You can only create direct and road routes on the PN20. You cannot (yet) create a trail route on the PN-20. I hear this will be added in a future firmware update.
A trail route *can* be converted to a direct route on the PN-20 if select “view map” instead of “navigate”. So long as you stay away from the “view map” button with regards to a trail route you have sent over from Topo USA a trail route will stay a trail route.
Based on your answer to question 111 Am I to understand that if I create a trail route on my computer using Topo USA that when I transfer it to the PN-20 it will still remain a trail route and will NOT be converted (unless I want it to be)? I do a lot of backpacking and want trail.
Can I use my Street Atlas 2005 USA on the PN-20?
Greg – Correct. Many of us who were early adopters of this GPS thought it would be converted to a trail route, but that is because we were clicking the wrong button on the PN-20 which caused it to reroute into a direct route. Stay away from the “View Map” button on the route screen and the trail route will stay a trail route. I’ve also turned off auto recalculation to prevent trail routes from being recalculated.
I don’t believe SA 2005 will talk to the PN-20, although you could likely transfer some types of information from the PN20 to Topo USA and then maybe into SA 2005.
WOW that is one quick reply Thank you.
Now if I did not misread I previous question the PN-20 is not good for street navigation? Right now I use Street Atlas (some times Streets & Trips)on my lap top to get to the street where the trail head is. I then have Long/Lat programed into my Garmin etrax. It would be nice to have one unit
To give you an example. I live in CT going to VA to hike. I set up my Laptop with my route and track my progress. I get to VA turn off the LAPtop and turn on the GPS and head out on the trail. Basically more of a toy on the trail to see how I am doing. I do do a little bushwhacking and Geo caching.
You can use the PN-20 for auto navigation, but it is a little cumbersome to setup on the PN-20 since that is not what it was primarily designed for. Creating road routes on Topo USA and transferring them to the PN-20 would be the way to go and less cumbersome than building the route on the PN-20 itself. But the screen is so tiny I find auto navigation difficult at best on any of these handheld GPS devices.
I’m disappointed in the contour interval on the Garmin products. How does the PN-20 compare?
Can the PN-20 add a calendar entry of a waypoint (geocache) found?
Can you load the geocaching icons into the PN-20?
Does the PN-20 auto recalculate when off route with out having to press any buttons?
If I just want to the streets and topos loaded, how large of an area can be placed on the 1 gig. chip?
Brian:
(1) See the link in comment #20 for a comparison.
(2) It doesn’t do that automatically, although when updating the icon to geocache found you could update the date/time field, add a comment, or create a new waypoint with a new timestamp automatically.
(3) Geocaches loaded in from .loc and .gpx files have a default geocache icon when loaded on the PN20.
(4) It can auto recaculate and you can set how far off track you need to be to trigger an auto recaclulation. People have disagreed with some aspects of how auto recalculation works on the PN-20. Rather than calculating a new route to the destination from the current location it tries to get you back on the original route. There are advantages and disadvantages to each methodology but it sounds like they will try to address this to be more flexible in future firmware updates.
(5) See comments 32, 33, and 37 for a few size examples.
Question in regard to handling multiple non continous maps – can I put put topo maps of non continous areas on the GPS – like two different trails, and the GPS will know to switch and show me those detail maps when I am at those trails. Also, can I put one map package on the internal memory and one on an SD card and be able to use them both? Will the GPS look in the internal memory and the SD at the same time to determined which map to take from which memory base on my location?
Moti: Yes, Yes, Yes.
I notice that all of the products that come with the pn-20 are all for US maps, are there any maps or anything i can use for when i backpack europe this summer besides the world highway basemap? Thanks.
Will – See answer #106 where I answered your question earlier.
Does the PN-20 have the ability, or better, is it possible to create maps from other raster sources and import them into the pn-20, and do i understand correctly that you can use the USGS maps in the pn-20 as well as the delorme topo maps?
You can’t use raster maps from other sources at this point. However you can use USGS scanned topo maps provided by DeLorme.
I’ve seen SD memory cards with transfer rates from 5 to 50 Mbyts/sec. How fast of a card can the PN-20 take advantage of? Do you notice a difference in speed with faster cards?
Transfer from the computer directly to the PN-20’s SD card is quite slow. It is faster to transfer to the SD card in an SD reader. I don’t imagine a faster card would make the transfer any faster when the card is in the PN-20.
I do alot of hunting and would like to use the PN 20 to make maps of stands and differnt areas of game sign. Will this unit be a good choice to use as a map making tool? Thanks.
It would be a great choice for that.
My wife and I are about to retire and do lots of travel in the US-Canada and Europe. I have a DeLorme gps that we plug into my laptop, ok for the car but I want something smaller to use in a city and to get from city to city. From reading your comments we would like your suggestion-s.
Jay, the PN20’s detailed maps do not extend into Canada.
I currently own Delorme’s Topo 6.0, and when I manually add a GPS coordinate to an aerial photo the point on the map and the one I added are “off” by Several hundred feet. For example I plotted what was supposed to be an intersection of two roads and after plotting it in Topo 6.0 it showed up 300 feet to the north in the woods, not over the location of the intersection on the aerial photo. Does this happen with the PN-20 also, or does the cursor appear correctly on the aerial photo when it’s displayed on the unit? In other words is there any shifting or distortion from where the GPS says you are and where the map says you are?
Dan – Yes, it will still display incorrectly on the PN-20. You can read more about the issue here. I’ve seen areas like you describe where the aerial images are off, but not too many.
Any news on a bike mount yet?
When do you see the fireware update happening?
I haven’t been listening for the bike mount, but I hear some third party mounts are starting to show up. I don’t have any insider info on a firmware update, but I would expect it before too long.
Are the 3-D TopoQuads 2.0 Classic USGS 7.5-Minute Quad Maps DVDs available for purchase from delorme.com compatible with the pn20? [editor combined] I received new pn20 today. I have a couple questions. First, when i try to reset the odometer by itself, it does not reset. It only resets when i reset all trip data, odometer, avg. speed, moving time, stopped time, etc. Additionally, after i reset this trip data, and if i am sitting still/not moving, the odometer begins to count upward in feet, although i am not moving. I assume this is not normal. Can you provide any guidance? Thanks for your great incredibly helpful website/comments.
Can I use the Geochaching program (EasyGPS) to download Geocache waypoints to the PN-20?
Dan – Check out this thread about 3D topoquad compatibility. Regarding the trip odometer, I recall that fix being put into a firmware update. It hasn’t been released yet, but look for it n the next firmware update.
Bill
The new firmware update was released today which includes many of the fixes people have been looking for.
Will the PN-20 (a) show me the directions for driving a day or two to some destination, then (b) show the routing for a 60 mile on road bike trip or 40 mile off road bike trail trip, and (c) reverse the road trip for getting back? Can all this be done without reloading the PN-20? Without taking my laptop to load segments?
Hans, it will do those things (although I haven’t tried a road roue of that long… ie multiple days), but keep in mind the unit isn’t designed primarily for road navigation and thus it will have limitations of speed in calculating a route, no voice prompts. Creating routes on desktop software ahead of time is faster, but if your device needs to recalculate a route you might be in for a long wait.
I am looking for GOS unit that will be used only for geocaching. I was looking at the 60csx, but came across the PN20. Considering that it will only be used for geocaching, which of the two would you recommend? Or is there another? My only must haves are a color screen, and it would be nice to have some good maps (or at least the ability to get them), since the base maps in my current Garmin Etrex is not very detailed. It’s not fun when you’re going from point A to point B and and have no idea how to actually get there (unless you’re a crow).
I think you are looking in the right direction. I like using the PN20 for geocaching due to how I can manage my finds (and not yet founds) from within their topo usa software. The maps you get out of the box with the PN20 are better than those from Garmin.
Will the PN-20 output its GPS location coordinates to my laptop? That is, will it perform the function equivalent to the LT-20?
Yes, you can view your position read from the PN-20 on a laptop. I can’t say if it does it the exact same way as the LT-20, but the desktop software can get coordinates from the PN20.
I have Topo 6 that I purchased fairly recently. Can I just buy the device. If so I haven’t found that on the web site.
I don’t believe so, but you should call DeLorme to confirm. The reason is partially attributed to the ADP credits you get with the software.
In response to Ron on 5 May concerning pairing PN-20 and laptop. I just did that last Wed. on a 160 mile trip from VA to PA, it followed along flawlessly. Moving map, speed, and direction were right on the entire trip.
Remember, “water proof” is at a static condition, as the units are not totally sealed.
In a humid area at sea level (Hilo, HI) drive 28 miles to Volcano Park (~4000′ elev.), place your GPS on the roof of your car to acquire signal, and moisture will usually condense on the inner face of the screen and the cumulative damage begins. I have had three Garmin Etrex units fail quickly.
The units are vented to prevent mechanical damage from pressure changes, thus the moisture problem.
Some have success with ziplok-type bags.
My fix is to store and carry my current GPS 60 in a small sealed box (Pelican 1050) with silica gel pack (Hydrosorbent SG-40) that can be re-activated. So far, so good.
OOPS…I should have said “carry to the usage area”.
I carry the GPS exposed on my sternum strap, with a ziplok ready in case of rain. No real probs with using while in the bag.
OK. I have read through all of these postings and I am convinced that I would rather have the PN-20 over the 60CSX if I were using it in the US. However, I will be using it in Europe. Just to verify; the only maps/images/topos I will be able to use are the default world base map. I would have no ability to import maps/images/topos from any other sources. I would only be able to use waypoints for navigation off road. If this is all true than wouldn’t it make better since for me to get the 60CSX because even if its maps are less detailed they are available and I not going to be able to use images anyway because they will not be available?
JW, I think you assessment is correct.
Does the Earthmate PN-20 generate RINEX files that can be post-processed for greater accuracy?
I have a Etrex with software ver 3.30. I use it when I go backpacking and for Geochacing. Now I find it works great as long as I am not in the woods. Then I lose satalites. I also find when I am Geochacing that it bounces a lot. I keep looking at the PN20 and was wondering just how much of an approvement it would be? Would it grab the satalites easier in the woods? Would it hold them once I got them and would the bounce be reduced? All in relation to the Etrex?
Greg, I may not be able to help you, but if you list your exact model, someone should. Even all the “basic yellow” Etrex are not the same.
Bruce – Not that I know of but you should check with DeLorme.
Greg – I believe you will find it performs better than the eTrex, but maybe not quite as good as the 60CSx.
Do you feel that the PN-20 is ready for prime time? Or are there enough shortcomings or design flaws that it would be better to choose another brand or wait for the next generation?
I read that the PN-20 interface is slow. Do you know to what degree using a high-speed SD card (like the San Disk Ultra-II) helps in speeding things up?
Ernie, I don’t see many shortcomings or flaws with this device other than what was mentioned in the review. I think it is a great device.
Lenny – the speed is slow from the internal memory as well so a faster SD card wouldn’t make much of a difference. It feels a little faster with the more recent firmware updates too.
I tried a PN20. I have had a Garmin GPS V and a 2610. Problems include: I could not find a waypoint list on the PN20 for the route I had just downloaded from the computer. I could not get it to show more than the TOPO 5 map..i.e, no sat maps or DOQQ maps. I found the number of button pushes necessary to do anything with the PN 20 unbearable. I did a route with the PN20 and it showed turns, but did not label the roads. I spent about 15 hours messing with it, and called tech support three or four times. The Garmin learning curve is much easier, partly because the manual is so much better. I have had Delorme mapping programs for some years, and I hoped this was going to marry the two, but it is too hard to use. I am waiting for the easier version.
I just bought the Delorme Earthmate PN-20 and was comparing the Lat/Long output with my Garmin 76Cx.
I was quite surprised to see a significant difference in the coordinates. I then mapped these coordinates from the two GPS units in ArcView GIS and plotted them on an aerial photo I know to have less than 2 ft. error ground control. The Garmin coordinates properly placed the point on the photo and the Delorme was off by 200 ft north and 125 ft west. I consider this quite an error. Both are using WGS 84 as the map datum. Why such a large error? Anyone else with the same observation?
Paul, I think you might have a defective unit. I heard of someone else with a similar issue. DeLorme replaced it and the new device performed but better. I’ve done similar tests with the PN-20 comparing it to the output of other devices as well as comparing against known coordinates. (I’ve got family that works for the USGS.) It is never off by anywhere close to that amount. I’d give DeLorme a call.
Tim, Thanks. I installed the new OS software 1.2 for the PN-20 and now I get agreement to within 10 ft., which is acceptable for me. However, it does mean that all of you that have not downloaded the new OS might be getting less than optimal accuracy.
Tim, How does the PN-20 compare with the bushnell onix 200. They both seem to have mapping capabilities, and the onix claims to have areial photo downloads that overlay the gps display. Any thoughts. Thanks.
Q1: Are the built-in maps good enough to be used for driving directions within the United States, even when not sticking to highways? Could you please answer for the Garmin 60Csx and PN-20 both?
Q2: Can the PN-20 save trackpoints to the SD card directly, as is the case with the Garmin 60Csx? I realize the PN-20 can store 10×10k trackpoints in regular memory.
I will be riding a motorcycle around the Western and Soutwestern states. I’ll use paper AAA maps. I will be taking digital pictures and want to record GPS trackpoints continuously so that I can geo-tag my pictures after the fact, by interpolation.
For the purpose of this trip, I’d like to use a GPS for finding driving (riding) directions when necessary, and will be avoiding highways mostly.
I also want to use the GPS for backcountry skiing, hiking, etc.
And I am a programmer, so would like to have good device-computer interfaces and possibly APIs.
Should I get the PN-20? The Garmin 60Csx? Something else entirely? Both are more pricey than I hope to spend, but …
Thanks!
Ben, you won’t likely be happy with the road navigation functions on either the PN-20 or the 60CSx. Road navigation isn’t their primary task and they are both cumbersome to use for road navigation.
The PN20 can only store tracks on the SD card right now. I’ve heard they might change the 10×10k limit to allow more tracks, but the same number of total points in future firmware updates.
I think you might really need multiple devices for the task. One that would record tracklogs and be used for skiing, hiking, etc. The other for auto navigation.
Dear Tim,
I am not sure if this is the right place for this question. Let me know if I am out of line. On your post 166, you say that neither the PN 20 nor the 60Cs is good for road navigation. I presently have a Garmin 2610, and was hoping to find something that was not too big that had batteries and could be used on a motorcycle, hiking, bicycleing, so it needs to be able to do both. Is that possible? What else should I look at?
Justin, good question. Check out our article on hybrid GPS devices and why we don’t care for any of the multitasking GPS type devices right now. I try to keep discussion short in these comments (as you can see this page is getting long) so for longer conversation feel free to drop by the forums where we can extend the conversation not specifically relevant to the PN-20.
Justin, Tim, I agree with everything said in the hybrid GPS devices article; however, I’ve been using a 76csx (formerly a 76cs) as a hybrid for several years now, and I’m simply delighted with it. I carry it with me everywhere (in a pocket) and I can’t tell you the number of times it’s come in handy.
As the article said, there are issues. For me, the lack of spoken audio is the biggest. The full investment in maps does make the total price fairly high, but no higher than a full-fledged auto gps. I have topo usa, city navigator NA, city navigator europe, and a free greece topo mapset all on 4 microSDs, so they all come with me easily as well, along with a car adapter and a couple of AA battery sets.
I think the article exaggerates on the number of keypresses needed to enter addresses – 10-20 is more the norm, not hundreds, but it definitely can be a pain. But I don’t get lost anymore – ever…and on any trip, no matter where, no matter how spontaneous, I find what I need easily wherever I am…gas, food, hotel, whatever else.
I just got back from a trip to Rome; I used the GPS, not local paper maps, to get around, to aid the shopping experience, etc. With europe maps, available user POI downloads, and new internet mapping search/support, the experience just keeps getting better. At this point I really couldn’t imagine life without my 76csx.
I’m thinking of buying a new GPS, the new Garmin Etrex Vista HCX. However the Delorme Earthmate is very interesting. I will be using it mostly for geocaching and hiking in the woods. Which unit would you recommend? Larry
I think I am going to break down and buy a GPS unit. Do you think the PN-20 is the way to go for a first time GPS Unit. My father in-law has the Garmin 60CSX and he really likes it. The aerial mapping is not a big deal to me and I noticed that was one of the reasons you like the PN-20. Would you still select the PN-20 over the Garmin 60CSX if there wasn’t the aerial mapping? I also heard some complaints about the Topo 6.0 not being very user friendly. Thanks for the great review!
I noticed that in the comparison of Garmin and DeLorme maps in post # 20 the USGS map in the middle of the top row is in black and white. Are the USGS maps that come from their free website downloads displayed in color on the pn-20 screen? What is the scale of the DeLorme Topo USA maps that come with the pn-20; can you get 1:24,000 scale on them? Do the delorme topo maps show areas of tree cover and areas without tree cover on the pn-20? The pn-20 has an altimeter, doesn’t it? Is it small enough to fit into a pocket? Finally, have you heard if it is possible to get a signal from inside a passenger airliner? Sorry for so many questions, but I am completely new to GPS. Thanks.
Jerome, I’ll let a pn-20 expert answer those questions (but I think the answer to all is “yes”). re: airliner signal, the answer is also “yes”, but you need to be close to a window, and a gps is not an approved device on all airlines…read the fine print or ask someone. I read an airline/gps allowance list somewhere (maybe this site). I’ve found it’s quite entertaining – reading a speed of >500mph, comparing altimeter (~5000ft) with gps altitude (~30000ft), watching the list of nearest McDonalds zoom by, etc…but I’m easily entertained
Greg – There are a few comparisons in these comments about the 60CSx versus the PN-20. If you need more specific info, let us know.
Jerome – Yes, the USGS maps are in color. They are scanned USGS 7.5 minute series, so they are 1:24,000 scanned maps. The DeLorme maps do show tree coverage. There is no barometric altimeter, just the altimeter derived from GPS/WAAS. The size is included in the specs along the top left, I’m not sure how big your pocket is. I have picked up a signal inside an airplane.
Hello, very imformative site you have here. I was wondering how you feel the PN-20 compares to the Magellan Crossover? I am looking for an all in one GPS that I can basically go hiking with and use in my car. I have a feeling that the topo software is going to be much better on the PN-20 but I wasnt sure what limitations it has as far as using it in a car. Does the PN-20 give audible commands when driving down the road? Do you know of any other all in one GPS units that are on the market or will be coming out soon? I’m just trying to get the best all in one GPS that is out there right now. Thanks so much for your time and effort!
Jonathan, check out what we have to say about hybrid GPS devices like the crossover. Basically the Crossover and the PN-20 are at opposite ends of the spectrum. The Crossover is an auto GPS at heart which tries to offer topo maps. The PN-20 is a handheld outdoor GPS which tries to auto route. They both perform their primary task well, and their secondary task not so well. The topo maps on the PN20 are far superior to the Crossover. The topo maps on Magellan’s handhelds are even superior to those on the Crossover. The PN20 gives “tones”, but no verbal directions.
Tim, have you gotten the chance to test the pn-20 in dense forest cover? If so, how did it do? This is where I plan to use it a lot. I take it that the best batteries for longer life are the lithium rechargeables. Why is the pn-20 with the lithium batteries on the delorme web site so much more expensive – about $40 more than the unit by itself?
It seems to perform great under dense forest cover. It probably isn’t quite as good as a SiRFstarIII, but very close.
The $40 package includes the battery, battery charger, car charger, other charger connectors, etc. I too wish you could just buy the battery and charger, but you get lots more “stuff” with the extra package and thus the extra cost.
I recently purchased the PN-20. Im finding the Topo 6 maps are incredibly inaccurate. In my area, Berkeley CA, the alignment of the street map is typically off by 100-200 feet! When I drive around the unit tells me I’m in between roads. Sometimes the maps are so drastically misaligned that the device tells me I’m driving on an adjacent road. I also observed the misalignment by comparing the aerial (or USGS topo) maps I downloaded to the vector topo 6 maps. You can also draw a waypoint in Topo 6 and cut & paste it’s coordinates into Google Earth to witness the severe misalignment.
Have you experienced this problem?
If no solution can be found I’ll return the device to Delorme. This is really second-rate.
I haven’t spent much time trying to use it as an auto GPS, but there is a relevant discussion about that here.
Tim – just found this site and its great. I carry an old Garmin 12 GPS and a 7.5 topo guad map when I’m out in western Colorado. I now gather a position reading and then plot my position on the Quad.
I’m a littele confused with what I’ve read to date about the ability of the Earthmate PN-20 or other possible units so hope you can clear things up.
I’m looking for a GSP unit (not necessarily Earthmate but a single unit) where I can upload the same 7.5 guad map data into the unit and my position will show where I’m located on the Quad view on the GPS screen when in the field and will also show my track on the Quad view.
Again I’m interested in downloadable 7.5 quad maps – 1:24000 or 1inch=2000feet).
Thank you much for any info you can provide.
Will Google Earth Plus recognize the PN20?
WOE, Yes, you can load 7.5 minute, 1:24,000 USGS topo maps onto the device and display your location and track on top of those maps. Those maps are part of their ADP (Aerial data pack) data.
Peter – I do not believe so. However that doesn’t mean you can’t export data from the PN-20 and import it into GE. See this thread for info.
Does the included street map include city street detail? ex. Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Baltimore, Washington DC. Will the PN-20 work with Street Atlas 2008? I currently have a Garmin Quest and a Garmin eTrex Legend Cx which work great on the road, but not so great under trees. Thx!
Yes, you can download street level detail onto the device. I don’t think it works with SA2008 yet, but it sounds like they might be working on it.
Is there a mount for bicycle handlebar available and if so where?
My DeLorme Topo 5.0 maps are not accurate. They appeared to be up to ~ 700 feet off on route 50, between Lake Tahoe and Sacramento California. Supports comment 179, using Garmin Etrex Legend C. National Geographic maps seem to be right on. Has DeLorme fixed the location issue yet?
I purchased a PN-20 one week ago. The zoom in button stopped working after 2 days. It would beep like it was at maximum. The rest of the functions were OK. The resets described in the manual did not fix the problem. I had to download the new version of firmware and install it to solve the problem. Has anyone else had this problem? This won’t be nice if it happens again when I am on a week trip through the mountains. I also saw that the waypoints that I had made with the first version are all off by at least 100 feet now.
Don
Bill, check out the mounts here:
http://www.ram-mount.com/mount/delorme_mounts_earthmate_mount.htm
Sounds to me like the pn-20 is a good choice for folks who are familiar with use of geographic and satellite data, but may have too many bells and whistles and “too steep a learning curve” for many beginning users. Would that be a fair characterization? I am in the same boat as many, trying to decide btw a pn-20 and a 60csx/76csx so, 1.) am I/are we missing any quality options form other manufacturers. I am looking for something that has some serious logging and mapping capabilities. So 2.) I want to know about the relative flexibility in transferring logged data from the unit to my desktop. ASCII .txt files would be great, because I can do whatever further manipulation is required in whatever mapping application I deem most appropriate for the given task.
It seems that the pn-20 will be the unit of choice for me. I am just worried about the 10×10000 track option. 3.) Can I start and stop a “track” on multiple occasions? For example 5 ski routes tracked on different days on the same mountain.
Thanks, great site.
Can you upload GeoTIFF files to the PN-20? If not, does Delorme have a program to convert GeoTIFF to the PN-20 file format? I have the whole state of Nevada in 1:12000 color aerial photography that was flown in 2006. I don’t need to purchase any additional images.
Q – 1) I think you have it covered. 2) You can import them into the Topo USA program and then export the logs to GPX, TXT, etc. 3) Yes, as often as you would like.
Pete – No, it currently only accepts DeLorme’s maps and imagery. You might be able to do that with something like Xmap when it becomes compatible with the PN20.
I have read all the posts and find them quite inforative. Iwill be moving to the Philippines later this year. I would like to know any recommendations as to the best unit and any sources of maps et al. I will be using it mostly for hiking and exploration.
Hi Tim,
Great review it looks like Delorme is really on the right track, no pun intended, and I have to agree with you mapping programs seem to be the Achille’s heel of most GPS units.
Having owned and used several Magellans, Trimbles, and currently a Lowrance iFinder Hunt most of the maps that come with it or purchased separately are poor indeed.
I own a couple different version of Delormes maps and have been very pleased with them and basically what I do is mark my waypoints and different POI’s and print out a map to take along in the area I’m hunting or scouting.
I have three major concerns with the PN-20, 1) I’d like to have the extra speed and sensitivity of the SiRF III chipset even though it seems almost on par with it. 2) The reports of the processor running slow and taking a long time to redraw a screen concerns me, I’m a map junkie and my SD card would be loaded to the max and I wouldn’t want it to degrade the function of the unit. 3) The maps and satellite images look great on my 17 or 20 inch monitors but what do they look like and how “usable” are they on a little 2″ GPS screen?
Thanks, Roger
Roger, there isn’t much I can do about number 1 and 2.
For number 3 there are screen shots in this post, and you can see many more over here. Click on the ‘view maps’ link in each section for each map type.
Tim,
I have never owned a GPS before. I was looking at the PN-20, because I have always used Delorme’s Gazeteer and because it looks like it may be good for dual purposes. I don’t know too much about GPS devices, but plan on getting one in the next month. I want one that is good for hiking, road and mtn biking and driving. The auto ones that I have seen have great features for driving in new areas that I would love to have, but I also want to hike and bike and can’t afford two devices. How does the PN-20 compare for driving compared to Garmin, etc? I don’t need voice activation or MP3 players, but would like to know what is best for someone who wants one device for multiple purposes. Thank you.
Buying a GPS is somewhat similar to purchasing a vehicle. If I said “I want one that is good for off-road, economical on the highways, can carry large loads, and is easily maneuverable on city streets you would probably tell me I need more than one vehicle.
A GPS is similar. Those designed for hiking and outdoor activities perform poorly for auto routing since there is no touch screen, no voice prompts, a small display, and only toggle switches to operate the keyboard. That makes using handheld devices for auto navigation extremely frustrating.
On the other hand auto devices perform poorly for outdoor use. They are not waterproof, not built to be rugged, have sensitive touch screens which could break, and have a shorter battery life.
Therefore I recommend to people to get one GPS for each task. Pickup an auto GPS for $200 and then get a handheld for hiking. See this FMI.
Tim,
After a long evaluation of several units, I have decided on the PN-20 (your reviews are great). I need your opinion on this: with current firmware at May 2007 and the price at approx. $380, in your experience, would it be worth the wait for the next generation of firmware to get out any “kinks” since the unit is relatively new. Thanks.
Mike – The firmware updates don’t cost anything, so I wouldn’t see any reason to wait if you’ve decided this is the unit for you.
Tim – it’s a great unit (I love the USGS quads for kayaking & sailing) and the firmware updates are quick and easy. A friend of mine just got one too and now they give you a video user guide too! If you already own one, it’s on youtube.
Hi every one-
I am new at all of this GPS stuff… I love to hike and thought this PN-20 would be great… I have to warn the beginers of GPS out there, that unless you willing for a VERY LONG learning curve , dont buy it. THIS IS NOT somthing that works out of the box. You really have an understanding of how to download files on your computer as well. PS- I was told by DeLorme that the satelitte images are free. Thats not the case.
i might return this thing. I just dont know if I have all that the time avl. to learn how to use it. i wish it was more of an “open the box and use” product.
I agree with Steve. I have had two earlier GPS units, both Garmin. Delorme needs to look at their systems for interaction. They are much easier. I bought a GPS 60 Cx. It will do Topo maps, but not the satellite, but it works for what I want to do. I did not have the patience to learn how to work the satellite part, and I put about 10 hours into trying to make friends with it. Delorme has such good maps. Its too bad.
I still haven’t been able to do a side by side comparison between the Garmin 60Csx and the Delorme PN-20 but I found a local REI that carries both so I’m going to go out and try them side by side.
I compared the Garmin 60 Csx, Bushnell ONIX 200 CR, and the Lowrance Hunt C side by side in the parking lot of the Cabela’s in Hamburg PA and the overall winner was definitely the Garmin 60 Csx.
I plan on using Delorme’s mapping program along with the Garmin as the Garmin maps have not impressed me at all.
Take Care, Roger
I grew up around topo maps and have file cabinets full of them. I also have DeLorme’s books for about twenty states and have purchased several versions of their software and GPS units for my laptop and car. I bought the PN-20 for hiking but was quite disappointed with it and sent it back.
The processor is V-E-R-Y slow (I think I know what happened to all the old XT chips) and scrolling the screen takes forever. Going to separate pages via the buttons on the unit has to be done at a deliberate pace since you can easily punch the buttons faster than it can keep up and overrun your intended page.
I wanted the PN-20 for the ability to download USGS quads but I usually have them with me when hiking so that capability did not override my other concerns.
I just got back from a trip to Alaska and also found out that the Topo 6 software’s dataset for Alaska is not nearly as precise as that of the lower 48, making for, in my opinion, an unacceptable amount of error in topography, as far as hiking is concerned. My old Magellan was more accurate on the Alaska contours.
The screen on the PN-20 is beautiful and bright and easily readable in sunlight but, at 2.2″ diagonal, it is a bit too small for these 55 year old eyes.
I met another hiker in Alaska with the Garmin 60 Csx and played with his unit some and liked what I saw. He was somewhat disappointed in Garmin’s topo maps, however, they were more precise than DeLorme’s in that area of the state. The Garmin’s screen was larger than the PN-20 but not as bright (which may have been an adjustment issue).
I’m still looking for my perfect hiking GPS.
Hi I was wondering if the pn-20 can display the elevation profiles actively like you can in topo 6 on a laptop connected to a usb GPS. I want to use on my bike and the most critical info is what does the hill profile look like ahead and just how far up this darn 4 mile hill am I. I see a similiar graph on tide in your article.
JohnT, there isn’t an elevation profile available. It is something I’ve asked DeLorme for as well.
YIKES! I only had the PN-20 for 25 days and it already broke! It fell off my bike when I was riding it… The screen cracked! I contacted Delorme, they told me that THEY need to determine if it’s covered under warrantee or not! Be careful not to drop this thing!! I will let you all know if they stand behind their product or not. Wish me luck!
I went through two of these in short order. The first one had a problem with the battery door upper thumbscrew not setting into it’s receiver, bad manufacturing, took it back for another. This one lasted about 3 weeks and one weekend hike before it developed a severe electronic issue and started continuously rebooting. Despite claims that this could be fixed I was not impressed. It was clear to me that the QA on these is poor and they still have a lot of bugs to fix. Perhaps someday soon they will overcome this but for now I need a GPS handheld that I know will work. My advice, give Delorme some time to get the bugs out.
No disrespect 207, but I think no GPS in this price range should be expected to be guaranteed/warranted for the fall described.
(I use Garmin and have no DeLorme experience except TOPO 6 software, which I like).
This is in reference to comment number 203.
Here is a website with a side by side comparison of the 60CSx and the PN-20. As you can see, a lot of opinions go both ways. It really gets down to what capabilities do you really want in a GPSr.
Here is the Delorme Forum address where a comparison of the Delorme Earthmate PN-20 and the Garmin 60 CSx is posted. In the first Forum entry you have to click on the ‘Comparison’ to go to the comparison. http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=9718&highlight=comparison
Here are four additional pages of Forum discussions regarding comparisons between the Garmin 60CSx and the Delorme PN-20. It would be very wise to read all of these comments if you plan to purchase either a Garmin 60CSx or a Delorme PN-20.
http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=11091&highlight=comparison
The information helped me make my decision.
Tim -
Thanks for the detailed review and info. I am strongly considering the PN-20 with the biggest draw being inexpensive, 1:24,000 scale, nationwide topo map integration. From the feedback hear Topo USA data seems to be of reasonable quality. I question not having the SiRFIII chip but that as well has been addressed.
One final need is the ability to export Tracks and Waypoints From the PN-20 back to the computer. I am unclear if this is possible with the PN-20 /Topo USA package alone or if additional software is required.
Thanks in advance.
The topo quality is superior in detail to most other GPS devices which typically only offer 1:100,000 scale for the entire USA. The chipset isn’t quite equal to the SiRFstarIII in my opinion, but it isn’t far behind. Interestingly, Garmin just selected to use chipsets from the same company as the PN-20 chipset in their upcoming devices, you can read about that here. You can export tracks and waypoints back to Topo USA very easily. Topo USA connects to the GPS and you can select the tracks/waypoints and copy them into your desktop topo mapping projects.
It’s 207 again.. I was very pleased with how Delorme treated my case. I was charged a very fair price for the repair. I also got it back very fast. I am very pleased!
Steve
I have a Magellan SporTrak COLOR that has World major highway maps that you can zoom in to about 1 city block. This is an older model I was thinking about replacing that I liked a lot. I used it when traveling. All I wanted for my GPS was if I got off a major highway which direction do I have to go to get back to it. I purchased the DeLorne PN-20 because it was advertised as having world maps. It does, however you can only zoom in to what DeLorme calls 8 miles. Well, at this 8 mile far-out zoom most of the highways have NO route number on them on the map at this far out of a zoom and when at a major city this far out zoom of 8 miles the highways are so close together and the PN-20 is useless for traveling and driving. DeLorme Advertising PN-20 as a world highway GPS device and providing maps that are just about useless for using while driving borders on false advertising in my opinion.
Is anyone using this for marine applications? I’d like to hear some reviews from folks using this on the water. Charts and such?
The closest to marine use I’ve done is sea kayaking, tracking tide information, etc.
How does the PN-20 calculate terrain elevation? Does it really calculate the Elevation or does it get its reading from a known Topo database based on your coordinates?
I’m not totally sure I understand the question, Joey, but I’ll take a stab. The elevation readings the GPS provides in its information fields (you are here, maximum elevation, minimum evelvation, type information) all gets calculated from the internal GPS chipset. The maps are “fixed” and come from the DeLorme or USGS maps and are fixed.
Tim,
Alot of great info here.I am not very technically inclined,and was wondering about the learning curve for the PN-20.I’ve had an old magellan 315 that I’ve been using for about 7 years now,and was wondering if learning this new unit would be about the same?I will be using the unit for hunting and fishing,marking waypoints and exporting them to my computer,and also downloading topo from the computer to the Gps.
Also,would you recommend buying the bundle package or just the unit? Delorme is having a deal right now for 339.95 for the unti,and 379.95 fr the bundle.Thanks
Much of the terminology and basic functionality will be similar. What makes this GPS having a slightly higher learning curve over other models is that it in part has more capabilities. Other devices may have less detailed topo maps and don’t have aerial photography, etc, so while with those models you can load the maps and be done this device requires more work because you can’t load all of the maps at once. Like anything else it will probably be a bit unfamiliar at first, but get better with practice.
The bundle is nice because it includes the rechargeable battery with charger and alternate chargers.
Tim
I called Garmin today about the change in chipset from the Sirfstar III to the new Teseo chipset and the person I talked to said they weren’t aware of the change.
I asked why they would be changing since so many people thought the chipset was one of the best and according to him it was due to, “motion spoofing” my term not his, while a person was standing still the unit showed they were bouncing or moving on the display.
I thought that this was corrected by turning on position averaging in the preferences which should allow the unit to calculate a position based on the average number of points the unit has taken?
He did say that the Delorme maps were much more detailed than the Garmin Topo 2008 which are 100K as opposed to the 24K Delorme Topo.
I keep reading on this site and other sites that the biggest complaint is the slow display and redraw rate of the screen will Delorme be addressing the slow processing of the unit any time soon?
Thanks, Roger
Many manufacturers are getting tighter lipped about what chipset they are using.
As to the speed, it did increase a little bit with one firmware update, but not much and I wouldn’t expect to see many improvements in that area. I have found, however that by more carefully cutting maps to transfer only what will be used, the interface will speed up. Also I tend to do things that are processor intensive like logging tracklogs every second which can have a significant impact on the speed of the rest of the device. Another firmware update is due in November, but I don’t believe it will include much that will increase the speed of the device when you are taxing it to its limits.
Hi Tim,
So basically your saying that you’ll deal with the slower performance to gain superior mapping and visual information and work within the units strengths and weaknesses?
If the unit is jus operating with or displaying just the Topo maps is this enough to slow the unit down to the point that it could be a problem or is it other process that cause this?
I’m thinking of getting the Garmin 60 CSx and using the Delorme Topo maps to make my own 24K scale maps and also using Google Earth to print out hunting areas and waypoints.
One reason I’m leaning towards the Garmin is the signal reception in tough locations which I always seem to find myself in.
Thanks, Roger
Roger,
I have Topo 6.0 and it is an incredible resource, however it has nowhere near the detail or precision of the USGS 24K series. The Garmin 24K National Park maps are the closest I have found to the USGS maps but they lack the vegetation detail. They only cover National Parks, which isn’t much of a problem for me because that’s where I do most of my hiking.
DeLorme Topo 6.0 falls in between the 24K USGS and the Garmin 100K US Topo.
I bought a PN-20 but returned it because it was agonizingly slow. I covet a Garmin 60 CSx but will likely stick with my old Magellan for a while.
Roger – I guess I’m saying that how I was originally using the device didn’t necessarily represent how most people would be using the device and that I was throwing everything at it. As a result, I was maxing out the processor. When just displaying topo maps, or following a simple route things are fairly quick. But if I have lots of map layers for the area I’m in loaded (topo at all zoom levels, aerial at all zoom levels, satellite at all zoom levels, USGS at all zoom levels) and I’m also trying to record a tracklog every second all while panning the map then it will be very, very slow.
By just cutting each map at the zoom levels I needed it, turned off map layers from other areas I’m not currently using, and setting the tracklog to record at a more reasonable rate (like every 5 seconds) then the speed of the device improves dramatically.
With all that said, I wish the PN20 had a faster processor, but the additional quality and detail of the maps (when you need it) is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
David, of course you can load the actual USGS 24k series maps on the PN20.
Hi Tim,
So the PN-20 chip calculates the actual Terrain Elevation using the satellites? I was thinking if it has its own database of terrain elevations like in Topo and pulls out the Elevation info based on your location. I have the PN-20 now and when I compare the Elevation reading on the PN-20 with the Elevation on Topo, I sometimes get a +/-50ft difference(@ +/-10ft accuracy) and sometimes the reading is exactly the same. Which reading do you think is more accurate?
Joey, the PN20 gets your altitude from the chipset, it doesn’t reference the internal mapping. Thus it will still work properly in an airplane. It is much more accurate that way. Check out this thread for more discussion on the topic.
Hey Tim,
Have looked thru the comments here and haven’t seen any covering issues running from my Mac. I’m a Mac user (macs unite) and have had trouble finding any GPS I can use with my computer. Have looked at some Garmin but people seemed way too unhappy with them. Talked on the phone with a tech guy and they said they’re in the works of making the software compatible for mas, but that could take years. And Magellans’ software is way too expensive.
Is it true?
Can you use the PN-20 with a Macintosh computer? Please tell all!!
I purchased a PN-20 after reading your review and am pleased with everything but one critical error. The topo maps are incorrect for my area (San Antonio TX). After comparing the Topo USA 6.0 map with an All Topo Map, I found the contour lines to be correct but the roads were in the wrong place. Are there other maps (or mapping software) that can be used with the PN-20? I have not contacted DeLorme, do you think there is anything they can do?
Nikki, None of the DeLorme software for the PN-20 is Mac compatible. It will run under virtualization with an Intel Mac natively.
Bob, check out this thread for a possible explanation of what you see, however sometimes the maps are just plain wrong. In either case there isn’t much you can do about it now. At this point no other maps can be loaded on the device that I know of.
Map correction DeLorme
Product Revisions
http://www.delorme.com/support/revisions.asp
Number 229 again, I exported a trail from TOPO USA and imported the trail into Street Atlas 2008. The trail lined up perfect with the roads. I e-mailed Delorme to see if I could bring the 2008 roads into the PN-20. This is the response I got back.
Thank you for contacting Delorme Technical Support. Unfortunately
Street Atlas 2008 will not work with the PN-20. However, Topo 7 which
will be released in November will have the same street data as that 2008
program. When it is released in November you may want to call Customer
Service and find out what they can do for you about getting that
program. Their number is: 1-800-511-2459.
Seems to me this should be a recall item and the new version should be free. Well I will keep my fingers crossed. Both for free software and while tying to navigate with the PN20.
I am looking for a GPS unit that will help me navigate large properties (100 – 500 acres) usually with dense tree cover and varied terrain. I often have a property survey map which shows the property lines and corners. The property lines connecting the corners are designated with a bearing and a distance (usually feet). Some of the properties can be a simple rectangle with four corners, but usually they are more complex and odd shaped. I am looking at both the 60cx and the pn-20. Following are a few related questions;
1. The 60cx has a function they call “Projecting a Waypoint” which lets you enter a distance and bearing from an existing waypoint to create another waypoint. Does the pn-20 have a similar function? I can not find anything like this in the pn-20 manual.
2. Can this type of function be done in the Delorme Topo USA software, creating waypoints with bearings and distances? The manual states you can create waypoints but can you do it with just bearings and distances?
3. Usually if a survey is available I can get it before I go to the property I am looking at. Not one of the surveys I have ever looked at has any GPS coordinates, but I can usually find at least one of the conner markers indicated on the survey map when I go to the property. How can I create GPS waypoints from the information on a survey map which provides only bearings and distances?
Thanks!
Rich, it is possible to do that, but not as easy as it is on the 60CSx. To do it on the PN20 directly requires you to be at the first waypoint, with a GPS signal. From there you can move the cursor on the map with the arrow buttons. As you move the cursor it will tell you the distance and bearing the cursor is at in relation to your current position. When you get to the desired bearing and distance via moving the cursor, you can then mark that point as another waypoint.
You can do a similar thing from the Topo USA software. From an existing waypoint you can use the measure tool, click on the first waypoint, then move the cursor out. It will show the distance of the line and the bearing from the original waypoint as you move the cursor. After “ending” the line with the measure tool you can then create another waypoint at the end of the line.
Something else you can do with the PN-20 that I’ve always thought would be cool for people working with property measurements is the draw shape/shading tools. If you could mark out the boundary waypoints in Topo USA you could then create a shape file, shade it to be a slightly different color, and then cut the maps. Then on the PN-20 the area of the property in question will be shaded to the color you pick, while still allowing the map details to show through.
So no, it doesn’t have a waypoint projection tool, but it could be accomplished with other functions, just not quite as easily as on the 60CSx.
I am ready to buy my first GPS, and have the money to get a good one. I want to be able to map hot spots on my favorite lake and get back to them, I want to be able to watch my course while crossing the lake in fog/darkness so I don’t sink the boat, and I want to be able to find a remote pond on a map and get there and back from the truck. I might even mark the locale of a tree stand or two. Or unexpectedly leave the road and hit the Maine woods for an unfamiliar trek of a mile or two after game presuming my dog smells some. I am assuming that this rig will do all that, and do it with high quality maps here in the great State of Maine. I am resistive to technology but am quite able to use it.
Yes, Tony, it will do all of those things.
I enjoy snowmobiling in the U.P. of Michigan and was wondering if the PN-20 and/or its software has trail information like what the local clubs have published in their local areas
Dale, it might have some of them, but it likely won’t have the same detail as the maps offered locally.
I’m also new to GPS. I live in Montana and often hunt on state and BLM sections that don’t always have well defined boundaries. I can usually find a cornerpoint. Would this unit show my location in relation to secion lines on the Township/Range Grid?
I’m looking for the right GPS for hiking, hunting, riding and working. I just read through 240 posts and it looks like my ideal GPS still doesn’t exist. . . (sigh).
Though Delorme appears to be leading the way toward a potential robust implementation of the handheld gps for the masses, with it’s ability to display position on top of aerial photos and 1:24k (15 minute) raster scan topo, in addition to vectorized topo and street base map capabilities, they are short of the mark on a few key points. The processor speed has to be improved to be able to page between the multiple map and image displays. The satellite lock has to be able to keep lock under heavy foliage, when on steep northern slopes, and to keep up with the faster traveling speeds that bicycle, sno-mobile, off-road motorcycle, and atv users demand. Though they have identified the mapping overlay needs of most of us, they just don’t seem to be quite there yet.
Garmin hasn’t hit the mark either with their lack of raster support for the much more accurate 7.5 minute quads and the aerial photo DOQ’s, though they have implemented the faster processing speed, and the SirfIII technology that allows for satellite lock in the dense forest cover and deep topographic canyons.
I guess I’ll just have to buy several different devices in the interim. . . or not! Thanks for all your knowledgeable posts Tim.
Rich (post 234),
Just a couple of thoughts. First, the gps is utilizing an astronomic north, and many property surveys are utilizing magnetic north, so the bearing/distance entry of an unknown property corner from a found gps’d corner would contain significant error if you don’t take into account the magnetic declination for your area.
One solution might be to find two adjacent corners and compare the gps’d bearing to the survey bearing. You can then adjust for the angular difference between the two when you input the desired bearing. Another solution would be to become knowledgeable of the magnetic declination between the year of the survey and today. That should allow you to navigate close to the unknown corner. Of course the difference will be greater on a 500 acre parcel than on a 100 acre parcel.
It is pretty cool to be able to map the property corners of a large parcel on top of an aerial photo and topo quad. Also it can be very useful for determining if aerial photogrammetry is available from your nearest photogrammetrist. Enjoy.
Tim (240): The included Topo USA software includes BLM data from the USGS at 1:1,000,000 resolution. So you may even be able to find what you need from that data. Otherwise, I suspect the scanned 1:24k topo data (you can check the topo maps in your area if you don’t already have them) would have township/range grids on them.
Tim,
I am looking to buy my first handheld GPS and have read evrything on this site and more. Topo7 just released today and I was wondering if there is any word about the PN-20 getting a big brother soon? Is Topo7 worth the extra money or should I pick up a unit with Topo6 that everyone is knocking the price down on?
I will use this mostly for geocaching, fishing and gold panning. Nothing to difficult but still need the help.
I haven’t heard anything about an additional DeLorme handheld model. Topo 7 does offer a few improvements– more POIs, boat ramps, more campgrounds, NOAA charts for download. If those interest you then I’d look for Topo 7, otherwise you would save some cash on version 6.
A note to anyone who is a PN-20 owner, I think you get $30 off Topo 7 for a price of $69. There was also a new firmware update for the PN20 released (1.3) that fixes a few bugs and adds a couple of new features.
We enjoy offroading along fire trails in California, and cruising off the beaten path around Death Valley National Park, and other remote areas.
Being new to these GPS devices, and currently looking for one that will keep out of trouble, or help direct us to safety, would this unit fill the bill? What others might offer the support we are looking for?
Thank you.
P.S. We are also looking for a satellite phone to have along with us off trail. Know of any good sites for us to search?
Bill, I’m not familiar with those areas so I’m unsure what type of mapping you need. Are these roads that are named/mapped? If you were navigating on paper, which would be of more use in your situation– a road atlas, a topo map, or aerial photography?
Super info. Thank you. Have been considering the Bushnell 400 with the weather from XM, but have seen some poor reviews of the maps, and the weather isn’t even available yet. It did move me up the price grid, making me willing to pay more for a great unit. And the silence of a couple brands that I was considering speak volumes. The DeLorme looks like the ticket, and I’ll have to invest the time in it to use it well.
good review. thanks. My question – is this the best available gps for traveling in alaska (southeast) where there is no roads and sometimes poor satalite coverage. I will be using it for hiking into remote areas. Not covering great distances like driving on roads or boating. details of terrain is very important. thank you
Mike – See comments # 84, 85, and especially 204.
Tim,
I am a nature photographer and my primary interest in a gps device is the ability to geo-tag my photos. For this, I need tracklogs in either NMEA format or GPX format. Does the PN-20 generate tracklogs in one of those formats?
Marc – Yes it can. You would transfer the track from the GPS to the included Topo USA software and then export the track to GPX. DeLorme also includes their own tagger as well.
Note for those that want to be on the “bleeding edge” DeLorme has offered a public beta of the next firmware release:
http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=13564
Tim, thanks for the good review. This unit was recommended to me at MTBR, but I was hesitant about the price vs. what I needed for my mountain bike, quad, and rock buggy. I was looking at a Garmin, but the add-ons were puzzling me, especially the cost and detail level of the Topo’s. This answered a lot of questions, and one of the purchase links is actually able to ship to my APO military address (unlike AMA@#$N). Thanks
I would be using the PN-20 primarily for geocaching and the “no electronic compass” has me confused.
Can anyone provide a screen shot of the PN-20 navigation screen when going to a waypoint?
For example, when going to a waypoint/cache with my Garmin Etrex Vista, the screen shows distance to, heading, current location coords, and a floating compass needle always pointing toward the waypoint.
Thanks
Dan, Just like your etrex vista, the PN-20 doesn’t have an electronic compass. See comment #79 for info on that. It would work the same way as your etrex vista does, and you can setup a page that will show the compass needle pointing to the waypoint with distance and heading fields.
Dan, this article on GPS and Electronic Compasses should help too.
Hi,
Excellent review. I live in SE Alaska and plan to purchase this unit for hiking. I currently have a garmin GPSmap76 which I use for hiking and boating. I have loaded it with a garmin bluechart map for my local waters. However, I was looking for something that would display more detail on land than the garmin and this looks perfect. I just had a couple questions for you. Do you know how detailed (and expensive)the marine charts are for this unit? Also, I’ve heard that there is an older and a newer version of this unit. The newest version supposedly has a better processor. Is that right?..and how can I make sure I am ordering the latest version? If it comes with topo usa version 7, will it also have the newer processor? Thanks for your help.
Matt – You might want to check out comments # 84, 85, and 204. I haven’t heard anything about a change in processors, all I know is the change in topo version.
Any PN-20 owners should take note that they released firmware version 1.4 today with a ton of new fixes and features. You can find it here.
Just curious, but the I haven’t found any information on what position formats the PN-20 displays. Can it display position in GMRS format?
JD – The PN20 can display in the following coordinate types:
Degrees
Degrees, Minutes
Deg, Min, Sec
UTM/UPS
USNG/MGRS
Hello, I found your site and find it very informative. I am looking at acquiring a GPS and was wondering which brand and model you recommand most including this pn20 from Delorme.
Thanks
So…this is not the product for paddling a wilderness river in Manitoba. Correct? Is there such a product?
Thank you.
There are devices that offer Canadian mapping if that is what you are looking for. Garmin offers them for example.
I do a lot of off-trail hiking (stream surveys, etc.) and the ability to upload aerial photos to locate myself compared to the worthless (for my purposes) Garmin maps sounds great. I’ve been looking at the DeLorme site, and considering their GIS-type product for my work needs (which I understand is beyond what’s being discussed in this forum). Given the recent $100 rebate available on this unit, are there any rumors about new hardware coming out, perhaps with better ability to track satellites under tree canopy which seems to be a bit of an issue with the PN-20?
Thanks.
I have the PN-20 and Topo 7.0 Now if I follow a trail and have tracking turned on on my PN-20 can I and transfer this track to my Topo 7.0?
Kathy – If your needs are more GIS based than recreational, the PN-20 is likely your best choice outside of professional GIS type equipment such as the Trimble products. I haven’t heard of any rumors about a successor to the PN-20. While sometimes rebates can be an indicator of a new product in the pipeline, I suspect it might just be a price reduction to stay competitive as new models are released from other companies.
Greg – Yes, you can transfer your tracks back into Topo USA.
Thank you. I must be blind. I have gone through the manual twice and can not find it.
The same section of the Topo USA software that is used or transferring routes, waypoints, and maps, also has a section for tracks.
Thanks Tim,
Yes, I’ve also looked at the Trimble and Magellan professional grade products (for $3,000 and 1-2 pounds instead of $300 and 5-8 ounces) and decided I’d give the PN-20 a try first. Can always use the PN-20 for recreational hiking and kayaking if it doesn’t work out for my job needs. I’ve got a project coming up in a few weeks where I’ll be able to test it directly against the professional grade products to see how it compares.
I think you will be pretty happy with the PN-20. It is very popular with GIS folks due to the better quality maps and the more sophisticated mapping software that comes with it. There are other devices out there that have slightly more sensitive GPS receivers inside, but I’ve found reception on the PN-20 to be fantastic.
Tim, Exciting gear. I would also like to take the device along on my travels in Europe. Are there maps for purchase that can be loaded on the SD card? Would be great to have a street map of Rome or London handy.
Great review.
Lewis
As far as I know, there are no maps available outside of the USA for the PN20.
As far as I know, there are no maps available outside of the USA for the PN20.
JK> This is the reason I purchased the PN20 it is advertised as having world Maps ( high level ) I didn’t know what that ment. I had a Mallagen Color Sport that had World maps. High Leve is as seen from High in the Sky, so ther are Major High Maps included. I was disappointed. I called De and they said at the time they have no plans to have lower level maps.
Right, it has a world basemap, but not detailed maps. The basemap is more detailed than most, but it is certainly not something to rely on to navigate the local area.
HI
I have been reading threw all of this and did they ever add a compass in any of the firmware updates???
Thanks
There is a compass on the PN-20… always has been. There isn’t an Electronic Compass, (see that link for an explanation) and there won’t be because it requires specific hardware– something that couldn’t be addressed in a software update.
Thanks!
I am going to Chile and Patagonia and Delorme only has maps of the US. Can I down load google earth maps or maps from other sources into the pn20.
Pete – If you were to purchase DeLorme’s XMap program (recently offered for $99 to PN20 owners) there are some ways you can bring in custom imagery and cut those maps for inclusion on the PN-20.
Can I use the non-mapping capabilities of the PN-20 outside the U.S.A., i.e., mark way points and return to way points, observe and enter coordinates back and forth from a map, use the “compass” page for bearing to entered coordinate or way point?
Thank you.
Yes, Jonathan, you can. There is a worldwide base-map too, though not very detailed, it will show the most major roads around the world, boundaries, etc.
Hello
I use GPS on my bicycle. I have been using a Garmin Venture but have now installed the PN20 on the bike. I rode for the first time with the PN20 last week and discovered something that does not happen with the Garmin. After my trail ride with the PN20 I turned it off and hooked the bike on the car and drove home. To my surprise when I turned the unit on to look at my recorded track, it had recorded the mileage from where I stopped the ride to my home. The Garmin did not do this, when it was off it was off. The PN20 is obviously remembering where it was turned off and when it is turned back on again it calculates the distance to where it is presently. How can I stop the PN20 from doing this? I don’t think disabling the GPS will work because the default state is enabled. When I disable it and turn it off then back on again it goes back to the enabled state. Help.
Thanks
Is this the last post?
Russ, that is the designed behavior of the PN-20. To get around it, start a tracklog when you start your ride. When you complete your ride, stop and save the tracklog. Then just use the distance from the tracklog instead of the device odometer value.
Thanks Tim,
The device or overall odometer is pretty much worthless for my needs I guess. When I don’t want it to measure distances like in the car on the way home from the trail head, it is measuring fix to fix miles, not actual traveled miles. When you think about it these are quite useless miles. They are miles like the crow flies.
I found a way around this similar to what you suggested. I use the trip odometer as the device odometer and the device odometer as the trip odometer. I leave the trip odometer alone and reset the device odometer at the beginning of the ride. Irritating, but doable. Since the Garmin Etrex Venture doesn’t add miles this way, do you think DeLorme would consider a change in their programming? Do you see any advantage to recording miles this way?
Thanks.
First off let me say Tim, You put out an amazing amount of reponces. Thanks for taking the time. Here’s my question about the PN-20 and the mapping software that comes with it.
I do alot of Quad riding and I want to be able to ride a trail and then take the track and convert it to map so that when I ride it again I can load that back up and not take up track space. It seems that the amount of space set aside for track data is limited and once that limit is reached it starts deleting old track, but if you can convert it to map data that would save track data space if that make any sence. Can the PN-20 and the mapping software do that?
Yes Don, you can record a tracklog on the PN-20, then import it into the included Topo USA desktop software, convert the track into a routable trail, add the trail to the device’s trail database, and not have any space taken up by the tracklog.
I noticed that the review and comments started over a year ago. Do you know of any plans to bring out the next model? I ask because DeLorme’s site is now offering a discount coupon this month for the PN-20 ($299.00 for bundle) which may mean that they are readying for their next release. Thanks.
Detlef – See question #266 and answer #268.
Does the Topo USA include maps of state parks? I will primarily use a GPS for Mountaineering.
Thanks
Steve – The Topo USA software includes all of the USA. State Parks do show up as POIs, yes.
Being new to GPS units, I was wondering how this unit, with its included map software, compares to the Garmin eTrex Vista HCx using National Geographic State maps. My use will primarily be for mountaineering in state and national parks. Thanks again.
I could be wrong because it has been awhile since I’ve used the NG topo maps, but I believe the maps themselves are only compatible with the new Triton series (and in a special edition of the map) and that the “GPS compatibility” for other GPS devices like the Garmin eTrex is simply for transferring routes and waypoints– not the maps themselves.
One last question (famous last words): Considering my intended use of a GPS for hiking, mountaineering, backwoods trekking, from your experience would the Topo USA software work for me?
Tim – I was planning to buy a Garmin 60 CsX until I read of user dissatisfaction with their mapping software. That led me to dig a little deeper and I discovered Delorme’s PN-20.
I’d like to thank you for this review and for continuing to answer questions. Based on your experiences and what I’ve read from loyal users and staff on the DeLorme forum, I decided to order a PN-20/Topo 7 and several USGS State Quad DVDs. I’m anxiously awaiting their arrival so I can put all this knowledge to work.
Keep up the good work and thanks again for your efforts!
Could you please advise/suggest: How does one measure distance on a river, i.e. a meandering line? I would like to set up a route and measure distance and set up points on the river in advance of trip and then, en route, be able to calculate distance to point on the meandering line not as the crow flies but as the explorer paddles. Thank you. Lewis Clark.
Lewis – Assuming you have the PN20, you can do that with Topo USA using the line tool.
Thank you for your answer in #299. Say I am on the river and want distance to a point with the PN20. How do I get the distance as the river flows, not as the crow flies? Thanks again.
Menu -> Routes (or use the Page button to get to the Routes page) -> New -> Add Point -> Use Map. Then add as many points as you would like to approximate the river bends. Calculate the route and then the distance to destination will cover the route you generated.
Tim…I see “custom cut maps” advertised for “where you want to go”….I am planning to hike the Continental Divide Trail from Canada (Montana) to Mexico (New Mexico)…needing to cut a 2,800 mile by 8/10 mile wide corridor…someone has already plotted 148 maps for printing in .gif format…question: is this corridor feasible with Topo 7 and the included regional disks (I know it is with Garmin) or will I have to buy the state USGS topo maps (at $100 per), or download the corridor a piece at a time from netlink (at unknown expense)…one problem is I own two non-intel/non windows capable Macs so will have to slave myself to someone else’s PC to do anything, and have yet to deposit my one Topo 7 license anywhere …but I can accept that as there is nothing working well with older Macs anyway..thanks
Ron from Maine
Ron – It depends which maps you want. If you want the DeLorme vector TOPO maps, which are smaller in size– cut them directly from TOPO USA in just the corridor you need and add them to the device. (Probably on a larger SD card.) You might want to cut separate states to have a number of smaller map files rather than one big one.
If on the other hand you want the actual scanned USGS topo maps then you will need to shell out some cash for the extra maps, plus you will likely have to juggle a bunch of memory cards due to the amount of space the scanned (versus raster) maps take up.
Hello Tim
A couple of stupid questions: According to what I have read, the PN20 can save ten tracks with 10,000 waypoints per track. Does this mean the unit can store 100,000 waypoints total in memory? Is this being being stored on the SD card or internal memory?
Thanks,
Russ, DeLorme said this:
The tracks are stored in an internal memory. (I think it is in a reserved space so that no matter how many maps you cram into the internal memory it can still hold the same amount of tracklogs, but I could be wrong about that.)
When I make a route from a line in Topo 7, the map labels and numbers sequentially every “via.” Each change in angle of the line seems to be a via. There are a lot of vias. How do I suppress all those labels and numbers from printing on the map? I wish to show beginning and end and perhaps only a few intermediate points. Thank you.
Lewis, I think I’m following what you are saying, but I’m not 100% sure. With something like that you will likely get a faster and more detailed response over here. Those guys are really sharp when it comes to Topo USA tweaks.
I just purchased a PN 20 and thought it was OK while setting it up. But then I was really turned off at the price of aerial imagery. It’s a great feature and that, in addition to the 1/24,000 scale, is why I chose this unit. However, this feature is cost prohibitive. I am returning my unit as a result and opting to wait for other brands to catch up on the technology or Delorme to offer the aerial imagery at a reasonble cost. I ride dirt bikes in a 10 town area between two New England states, not that big of an area. It would have cost me an additional $500 to get that imagery. They give you a free $100, so actually would have cost $400, but that is way too much. It’s more than what the unit cost! Was disappointed because I spoke to Delorme a number of times to explain exactly what my needs were and I was assured what I was purchaseing would suffice. At least you can reach someone at Delorme unlike Magellan and Garmin. Is there anyone coming out with a handheld that has these features at a reasonble price?
Todd, did you know that the downloadable aerial imagery costs 10 times as much as if you order it on DVD? If I recall correctly the aerial imagery costs $0.10/km2 when downloaded, but only $0.01/km2 when purchased on DVD. The DVD method does have a $50 minimum order, but you get a much bigger bang for the buck that way if you can plan ahead.
Todd/Tim –
Actually an even more economical approach is to acquire Delorme’s XMap Pro product (~$200.00). Using XMap Pro you can convert imagery from a .sid or GeoTIFF format for use with the PN-20. Dozens of internet sites exist where you can access and download such imagery (or topo maps), such as the USDA’s http://datagateway.nrcs.usda.gov/ . Thus for $200.00 you can have unlimited access to a imagery throughout the US and even the world.
Great information in this thread!
I went from wanting to buy a Magellan Triton 500, to the Garmin 60csx but I think the PN20 is the handheld gps for me thanks to the info presented here.
The price is a little high for my needs though I think I finally have it in my head that I need to get 2 gps units; 1 for just driving and 1 for activities outside the car.
Thanks for all the good info!
Hi! A couple quick questions. I hope I haven’t missed the answers in the posts, but I haven’t had time to read through them all. In the TopoUSA program that is included, are all of the maps 24K? Or do you have to purchase those? Also, I am a field tech, and I work in heavy tree cover at times. I’ve heard this unit doesn’t get as good of reception as the VistaHCx, which I am also considering. Any input? Thanks!
Andrea – The Topo USA maps are based on 1:100k digital data, the USGS topo maps (raster/scanned) that you can purchase for the PN-20 are 1:24k.
My PN-20 doesn’t get a signal quite as fast as my DeLorme handhelds, but once it locks in it seems just as accurate and holds it in similar conditions.
Thanks for the response! I am definitly taking a look at it. Has anyone used one of the cheap 100 dollar Garmins? The only gps I have used was one of those on a recent job. It held out in tree cover, I didn’t mind that it didn’t have a compass, and it was a little slow on zooming in. How does it compare to the Delorme in these aspects? If it’s better, I wouldn’t know the difference as compared to top of the line Garmin’s.
In respose to 308-310 I tried to order the DVD. And, of course i discovered that the $100 certificate can’t be used for DVDs just the downloads. What a crock of crap. If you buy a PN 20 because you want it to perform all of the things that make it allegedly better than the other manufacturers, plan on spending a lot of money on additional software. Of course they just tried to sell me the x-map software as the suggested here. They should have recomended that in the forst place. And again it’s more money and at this point I have to expect that after I purchase that I will needing to buy something else. I’m officially done with my PN 20. Delorme can expect mine sometime next week. I wish they were up front when I describerd my exact needs when researching the purchase.
I am looking for an exceptional topographic mapping GPS. I don’t care about anything other than those items that you would find on USGS map such contour lines, streams, trails, etc. This is for an ATV that spends all it’s time on trails and in the woods. I already have an exceptional compass and other GPS for road use.
I have MANY Garmin and Magellans and they aren’t worth a crap for this type work. The spend all their efforts on cameras, compass, etc and not on good mapping. Is the PN-20 the answer to this requirement?
Frank, I’m not certain what your requirements are. You said you wanted contour lines, streams, trails, etc– but the Garmin and Magellan devices didn’t meet your needs. Those devices have those features, so we will need more info.
Sorry I wasn’ more explict. I have a Garmin ETrek Vista handheld and a Garmin Quest built in to my ATV (boy, the ATV manufacturers should hang their head in shame on that one). The Ertek has all the bells and whistles but no detailed terrain features. The Quest is simply a regular road mapping device with NO ability to load topo maps.
I want a good water resistant hand held device that will display at least 1:25000 detailed (hopefully even greater detail). It should be able to show all the terrain features you would find on a 1:25000 terrain map. I would prefer a “bread crumb” feature and the ability to update the maps as needed. The ability to down aerial view is nice but not critical.
I don’t care about all the bells and whistles the Etrek has built in. I certainly don’t care about the camera or the phone features that Magellan has built in. Basically, I used the GPS in very remote areas where detailed mapping is critical. I am not to concerned about the price but obviously don’t want to buy more than I need. I have looked at the 76 series Garmin online but they don’t appear to have the detail the Earthmate PN has on it. I have not looked at either in real life.
Frank – the PN20 includes the ability to download and install scanned copies of USGS topo maps in 1:24k scale. You get a certificate for $100 worth of the imagery (400 sq km) with the device.
Frank, you can also purchase direct from DeLorme their 3-D TopoQuad DVDs for $49.95 per state if you’re a PN-20 owner. Regular price is $99.95. This would give you all the USGS 7.5 minute quads for your state, or in a few cases, partial state. Texas, for instance, is divided into three regions, but most states are on one DVD. You can then cut 1:24000 topos of any area you want and upload them to the PN-20.
Regarding the 10,000 points per track and up to 10 tracks: comparable units only offer 500 points per track, up to 20 tracks. In other people’s experience, just how valuable is it that the PN-20 offers a much higher number of points. Does it really make the PN-20 worth purchasing or is it overkill? Any personal experiences?
J.R. – Personal preference. I happened to take my PN-20 out kayking with me last night. I paddled for a couple of hours, and about 7 miles or so, and recorded a tracklog for it. Over that time and distance I recorded about 5,000 points. Sure, I could have recorded the tracklog at a lower setting, collected 1,500 points, and have about the same “shape” to the track and similar data quality– so for me that part of it doesn’t make a ton of difference.
However another aspect is how often do you want to save/download the data? I record so many tracklogs that I don’t download the data but once every week or so, and therefore I find having that extra capacity is handy.
You can setup logging by distance (say one point every 20 feet) or by time (say one point every 5 seconds) to reduce the number of points used per track. That is pretty common for other devices too if you find you are bumping against the limits.
Tim,
I appreciate all the info and your dedication. Several data related questions that will help me decide on a purchase of the PN-20:
1. Is there a way to do an image overlay on Topo 7 and see it on the PN-20 (like you can with Google Earth). I have scanned trail maps that would be very helpful to have superimposed on topos or aerial imagery.
2. Is there a way to import pics or screen captures from Google Earth onto the PN-20 (and have lat/long aligned). I have found GE’s imagery to be much more current than that offered for sale by Delorme.
3. I have used Delorme’s Topo 6 (with my BlueLogger) and have downloaded some aerial imagery. Will these previous downloads work with v. 7 and hence with the PN-20?
4. When I made the purchase of the imagery mentioned in #3, the B&W aerial imagery came automatically with USGS Topo Quads and Sat 10 Imagery. It seems that Delorme now sells them as separate purchases. Is that correct?
5. Where can I see a good comparison of the various data types (Aerial, Color Aerial, Satellite, etc.) so I can know what data type I want, and how do I find out which data are available (e.g., color DOQQ) for the area I am interested in.
Thanks in advance.
1) You can trace trails into Topo 7 and then send them to the GPS. As far as scanning an image, you would need XMap for something like that.
2) Again, XMap will do that.
3) Yes, they should work fine.
4) Yes.
5) You can find more sample maps here on the second half of the page. You can click on a map to see more samples of that type. I think DOQQ covers all of the USA contiguous.
Just announced, the new DeLorme PN-40 to be released in the fall!
Of course they did – they knew I was buying that PN-20 last night. Still, this is fantastic news, all my reservations are now completely gone. Oh well – it goes back, I wait, and fall back on the old e-trex until then. Many thanks Tim for all the invaluable info you’ve put out here.
Re: #324 #5 (and 323 #5), I could use some clarification:
My Topo 6.0 program offers the following download types: Aerial Data Pack (imagery); Color DOQQ (Aerial Imagery); Sat 10 (Satellite Imagery); USGS 1:24K Quads (Scanned Maps); USGS DOQQ (Aerial Imagery); USGS Hi-Res 133 Cities…. I don’t see samples of all of these on any of Delorme’s pages. (I couldn’t find the ones you refer to at the bottom of the page of the linked page referenced in your post.) I’m really not interested in the hi-res cities, but may be interested in any or all of the others, but would like to see the differences side-by-side, esp the B&W vs. Color Aerial Imagery.
Also, is it fair to assume that the color aerials will be newer?
And finally, is there a “personal” version of XMap, e.g., non-professional or above, with associated pricing?
Thanks!
Kurt, click on the ‘Included Maps’ tab on the page I linked to.
I am wanting to buy a GPS for kayaking. The PN-20 is very interesting but I am wondering just how visible the color display is in the sun. I plan to mount the GPS to the kayak at the front of the cockpit. Would a mono-chrome display be better in the sun or are the color displays just as easy to see?
Roger, it is one of the better visibility screens out there. There are some maps, such as the b&w aerial imagery, that are harder to see in some angles of bright sunlight (as will happen with any GPS) but overall it works well. I kayak with mine in the same place and rarely have a problem.
Hi Tim, on #281 you said that XMap was recently offered to PN20 owners for $99. Is that still in effect? How would I go about getting that? (I am about to purchase my PN20).
I think it is, Ken, but I don’t know for sure. I think you had to call DeLorme to get the deal, so you can call them directly and ask.
This GPS can store 1000 waypoints. Do I have to scroll through the entire list to find a waypoint or is there a short cut. I traded in my Garmin etrex Vista for this GPS. With the Vista, I would see a keyboard that would allow me to start typing the name of a waypoint and the GPS would skip to the nearest spelling. Does the Earthmate have anything like this?
I just got a responce from Delorme. There are no shortcuts when looking for waypoints. You have to scroll through up to 500 waypoints in order to find the one you are interested in. I hope the buttons were built to last or they will be the failing factor for this product.
If your waypoints are added with different symbols, you can filter the list by symbol.
Tim – Thanks for the info. Can you refer me to the instructions showing how to do this?
Danny, hit the find button (the magnifying glass). The top should say ‘Show: Waypoints’. Arrow down to the ‘Symbol’ field which probably defaults to ‘All’. Click Enter, and now you can filter the list by which symbol you want to see in the list.
Thanks Tim. Your instructions worked. I had to change a few defaults first, but I got it now. All I have to do is change the symbols of my waypoints and group them accordingly.
Great, glad it worked out for you.
I’m in the market to purchase a handheld (this will be my first), and I’ve been doing a lot of research. I’m stuck between the PN-20 and the 60CSx. Any ideas how the mapsets are for Hawaii(Oahu)?? Topo, aerial, satellite? Which unit would be idea for the islands??Primary use would be for hiking. Thanks!
v/r, Raleigh
My job requires creating maps in ESRI’s Arcview and the use of shapefiles. How can I transfer waypoints obtained with the Earthmate PN-20 to Arcmap as a shapefile or data layer? Since ERSI doesn’t support USB port communication I have to download to DeLorme but have not been able to find a way to export the mapping data to the GIS software the rest of the world uses professionally. Also the Earthmate puts some of my waypoints as if I was standing in the middle of the river. Is that map inaccuracy or the GPS? Thanks. I found some really helpful dialog here.
Being in the middle of a river is more likely to be a map inaccuracy. What formats can ERSI import from? You can export waypoints into things like GPX format which is fairly standard. Or you could use a program like GPSBabel which might convert to the format you need. Otherwise I don’t know much about the ERSI software.
I cannot decide on a GPS for what I do. I hunt a lot in the Midwest and several other states such as North Dakota and Iowa. Most of what I do is on public lands BUT I also hunt on privately owned lands.
I had decided on the Garmin 60 CSX but then discovered how you have to buy this and that when the box makes you think the street mapping comes with it – it doesn’t. I like the idea of being able to overlay maps and images over one-another and have looked at others like the Triton series but am not sold on them either.
It would be great to have one that can latch onto and hold a signal, have an electronic compass, HAS GOOD MAPS (almost like what you would get in a basic Tom-Tom) and the like so a lay person such as myself can use it AND understand it!
Sounds like a tall order and still keep it under $400 or $500 (preferably around $350…) and wonder what you all think?
I see the new Delorme is coming and I do not need one right now but this Fall would be great! I have a new Garmin 60 CSX in the box I am about to return and would love to read the responses, thoughts, even criticisms (not the last one but will understand!).
I think you will like some of what the new PN-40 has to offer. We’ll be posting new details on the PN-40 tomorrow morning, and I will be getting some hands-on time with it later this week.
Thank you!
I should have also added I am an outdoor writer and have been for 24 years. I am always open to new ideas and discussion!
With my PN-20 purchased in April 2008 using a set of brand new Energizer alkalines, if I leave the gps powered down it will completely drain the batteries within 2-3 days! This does not seem reasonable, and it’s a pain to remove the batteries at the end of each time using the gps. Have you seen this issue? I downloaded the newest firmware in about May.
Make sure you have the correct battery type selected in Device Setup -> System -> Battery Type. Also, there have been a few more firmware updates since May, so I’d grab those too. But no, I haven’t seen that issue myself.
HOORAY for DeLorme!! The firm ware update 1.5 has this fix: “Distance traveled while the PN-20 is turned off is no longer added to the device and trip odometers when the PN-20 is turned back on.” I am happy again! Back on post 284 I brought this up as a very annoying function the PN20 exhibited compared to my Etrex Venture. Thank you DeLorme!
When I saw the release notes I knew someone had asked me about that– but I thought it was in the forums and couldn’t find it.
Now that DeLorme has fixed the odometer situation, do you think they will address the battery life complaints? From what I have read it’s the clock that is apparently responsible for running the batteries down. I can’t understand why the clock in the unit is not shut off with rest of the electronics. When I pull the batteries after every ride the clock certainly is not running and when the batteries are reinserted the unit works just fine. Since the unit receives the time from the satellites anyway, why keep the clock running? Why not just shut everything off?
Another thing I wonder about is this PN20 clock must draw tons of current compared to say, my watch which runs for about a year on a little button battery. The watch also has a mini radio receiver in it which is also powered by the tiny battery.
Thanks
I have downloaded waypoints from DeLorme Topo USA 7.0 about a dozen times without a problem. Now, when I connect the GPS to the computer, I get a ‘device not recognized’. I have tried different devices (i.e. a camera) in the port and had no problem, so I do not think it is the port. I have tried other ports with the GPS and have the same problem, so I think there is a cable or GPS problem. I have only had the GPS for two months. What can I check to determine the problem and then how can I fix it?
I have had the same problem a couple of times. The connection points on the back of the PN-20 and the connector to them may not be clean. Use a pencil eraser on both sets of contacts and I believe that may solve the problem.
I tried to clean the contacts. They looked almost new, but when I cleaned them they worked. Thanks.
Hi! I almost bouth this when I was at their store in Maine last week – but I want to talk to someone who has used their products for sailing/boating. Any comments on the marine usability, depth data, navaids, etc.?
Ted, I don’t use it for sailing or boating, but I have used it for sea kayaking. You can download the official NOAA harbor charts, harbor inset charts, etc directly to the PN-20. The charts cost $10 each. Or, if you need a ton of different charts you can upgrade to XMap Pro for $100, then I think you can download the charts from NOAA for free, import them to XMap, and transfer them to the PN-20.
Dear Tim:
I recently bought a rather large piece of land, which has hills and plains and different types of soil which can be used for different productive activities. I can summarize my needs as follows:
a) I need a “map” of the whole land; b) Within that map, I need to locate the areas with different types of soil; c) Within that map I need to make a “contour map”, drawing “contour lines” which allow me to know the absolute and relative altitude of the different parts of the land, including different hills of varied altitude.
Given those needs, is the DeLorme Earthmate GPS PN-20 a good device for me? Please note that I live outside and far from the U.S., so the information regarding the US territory is of little use for me. I appreciate your advise, since you clearly have a deep knowledge of the PN-20. Thanks a lot in advance.
A and B will work… C on the other hand could be a bit tricky. The accuracy of GPS is 10 meters or better, 95% of the time in the horizontal axis… but it isn’t quite that good with elevation. So the margin of error might be outside of your tolerance. The upcoming PN-40 would work better for that part since it augments the GPS altimeter with a barometric altimeter, however it still might not be accurate enough for your altitude requirements. (And that would apply to any other brand/model GPS as well.)
Hi Jaime,
For the contours (C) you might want to consider renting a laser level/tripod/survey rod and running that with the GPS. I don’t know where you are, but they can be rented relatively inexpensively from any tool rental place in the US – you just need the construction grade laser level. You’d use the level/survey rod to obtain relative elevation and the GPS to record the location of that elevation. You could use this data to develop a contour map. It obviously wouldn’t be professional survey grade, but may be sufficient for your needs.
I will be canoeing the Topock Marsh, AZ in Nov.
1. Can I lay a track into the marsh and backtrack out?
2. What speed is required to obtain a heading? (I will be canoeing at a slow pace – to view the wildlife.)
3. Does the TOPO map for Topock Marsh (34′46.543″ / -114′30.865″) include relative depths?
Thanks,
1) Yes.
2) It will remember your last heading if your current speed is too low, but I think about 2mph will do the trick.
3) Topo maps do not include water depths.
Do you know of any compatible maps that would show depths, e.g. Navionics?
I am an environmental scientist and need a GPS unit that will allow me to enter coordinates for previous sampling locations (i.e., waypoints) with a PC and then will help me to navigate to those locations. These locations will definitely be off-road. Will the DeLorme PN-20 work for this application?
Crystal, yes.
HI
I got the pn-20 and loaded Topo USA 6 and no where in there does it see it to down load maps to it. I can download to a palm or pocket pc. there is no option to choose DeLorme. I must have have done something wrong, any ideas???
Thanks
When I entered my first waypoint, it defaulted to a pushpin and ‘wpt 001′. I selected the symbol and changed it to a house and then I selected the name an renamed it ‘Mother in Laws House’. Now when I enter a waypoint using the pushpin button, I get a house symbol and ‘Mother in Laws House 002′. How can I change this default?
Greg – Go to the ‘Options’ button on the top menu bar, select the ‘Handheld’ tab, and make sure the ‘DeLorme Earthmate’ button is selected and not the Palm OS/Pocket PC. How long ago did you purchase it? It should have come with Topo 7.
Danny, you can’t change that as far as I know.
I have been there and it only lists the “palm os/Pocket pc” there is no place to click to even select the Delorme. I got it used and the person asked if I wanted them to load up some stuff and I said no, that I need to learn to do it myself. And I have not been able to do that yet. I did load a map on the sd card and was told that when the pn-20 started and found the sats that it would load the map, that has not happened either.
Is there a pn-20 book for dummies???
thanks
Greg
If the copy of Topo 6 you have didn’t come with the PN-20, then it isn’t compatible with the PN-20. There is a special version of Topo designed specifically for the PN-20– sounds like you might not have that.
HI
It did come with the box for the PN-20 and is listed on the side of the box. A couple of the tutorials that I found show the PN-20 on the start up page where this software does not show it
still if I put it on the sd card shouldn’t the pn-20 see it??
thanks
Looks like that I may have gotten the wrong software like you said. Is there anyway to tell the difference on the disks themselfs or on the case.
I am really looking forward to get my PN-20 going and this is kinda dissappointing.
Thanks for help and all the information you have provide in the comments. I found them very useful in deciding to buy.
Greg, I’d contact DeLorme tech support: http://www.delorme.com/support/policy.asp
I’m sure this has been asked, but can you load raster images downloaded from other sources other than Topo 7.0? i.e, areial photos on-line.
Gary, yes with the $99 Xmap upgrade for PN-20/40 purchasers. See comments 281, 310, 226, and 331.
Tim, I just returned the Triton. It has satellite lock equal to an original E-Trex, plus the Vantagepoint software is a joke. This thing is a childs toy at best. Anyway, you say this PN-20 has excellent lock ability that is as good as the 60CSX. I am reading hundreds of reviews that are saying the exact opposite. In fact, I have not read one single review that said this unit works under heavy cover. They all say it loses lock under even the lightest cover. Can you please elaborate some more on your experience with the units ability to lock under heavy cover. I go miles into thick, wet, NW coniferous forests and can navigate out of some horrendous wilderness areas, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I still need a reliable backup plan. If my Triton was my last resort, I would be dead by now. I don’t need another childs toy built for geocaching or hiking or finding a duck blind. I need a hard core unit that can be relied upon to get me out when my maps and compass and constellations have failed me. Please tell me the truth about this unit. I cannot handle another lying sales ad.
Bob, I don’t believe I said the satellite reception of the PN-20 is just as good as the 60CSx. See comments #93, 102, 104, and 156 for statements I’ve made comparing the two. If you are considering the PN-20 and reception is most important to you, then you should look at the DeLorme PN-40 instead which has a 32 channel receiver that is more sensitive than the PN-20. Or just get the 60CSx if that matches the standard you are looking for.
My computer recently broke and I lost all my data and files. When I download the software again will I be able to use the free $100.00 Aerial Downloads again from Topo USA 7.0 ?
Bob, no– it won’t download them again. You may try contacting DeLorme support by phone but I don’t know what they do in those situations. The worst case scenario is that you can purchase their new $29 map subscription and download an unlimited amount of maps for that annual cost. But I’d try support first.
No questions but getting ready to buy to PN-20’s. I will be back to review and for advice.
Please keep doing what you are doing! This is awesome!
Csn you download a .gpx file into Delorme’s Topo USA 7.0 ? If so, how ?
Yes, you can drag and drop them on the map or use the import button from the draw tab.
Tim,
wWhen I tried to open the file up it says I don’t have a program to open it up with. When I used the import button it will only reconized the .tpx files.
I don’t know Bob, both of the methods I described have always worked for me.
Is anyone having battery issues with the PN-20?
I have two brand new Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries in the PN-20. In less than 30 minutes of use the battery gauge is already turning yellow. With normal batteries I get less than 25 minutes of use. This, of course, is ridiculous.
I haven’t had any battery issues like that. I assume that the backlight isn’t forced on. Are you using WAAS? Do you have the correct battery profile selected? Which firmware version are you using?
Backlight set for 15 seconds. No WAAS. I don’t have the unit with me at this time, but I believe the profile was set correctly. I d/l new firmware about two months ago. Don’t remember the version.
Thanks for you quick response.
Branch,
I have the same problem. Firmware up-dated (1.5.94324) about 2 months ago. Backlight set at 15 and using the same batteries, menu set right for the lithium. I have WAAS enabled. Now I have noticed that it drops fast but will remain on yellow for about 3 – 4 hours with constant use.
Just a note to everyone hear who might be interested, yesterday I posted my review of the DeLorme PN-40… very nice!
DeLorme is now offering a $50 rebate on the PN-20. See this PDF for details.
Hi, first time user and almost a first time buyer. This site has been very usefull. BIG question, is there any chance of Delorme remembering their northern neighbours, i have almost made the mistake of buying Triton 500(very bad reviews everywhere) or the e trex vista with topo, i would like a unit for the backwoods and also for the dash for occasional street tracking etc.The Delorme has to be the unit for me but is there any point in me buying it. Thanks for any ifo you can suply. Les.
Tim,
I recently purchased a Delorme PN-20 to use for simple waypoint collection and plottimg of these waypoints in XMap 5.0. On my first use in the field I took approx 70 waypoints. When I returned to the office and downloaded the points about 2/3 of them were wrong. By wrong I mean stacked in one location on to of each other, off the property completely, etc. I called Delorme and found out that if you pan the map that it will plot a point in the location you have panned to instead of your triangulated position unless you clear the device by hitting “quit”.
I made another attempt in the field using the device as well as a Garmin back-up. I took waypoints with both devices at each location I needed….. Never even thinking to try and pan the map from fear of getting bogus points. The same scenario, however most of the points took with only one spot having errors (wayponits stacked on top of each other) The Garmin worked beautifully all day and plotted my point exactly. most of the waypoints were in the same locations, but they were several feet apart, sometimes up to forty feet difference!! Do I have a faulty device, or am I just a moron? Seems like it should be pretty straight forward and idiot proof to just shoot some waypoints. Thanks for any advice you can give.
Brad, it is true if you pan the map before setting a waypoint they will be offset as you describe. I haven’t seen any issues with incorrectly placed waypoints aside from that issue. It sounds like you might not be doing something correct, but I’m not certain what.
What type of files can you import or drag and drop onto the Topo USA 7.0. ?
Hey if I get this guy I would be usein it down at the lake. Does it get good signal down at lakes???
Who doesn’t like presents, especially one that you’re researched and given yourself? I really tried to like the Delorme Earthmate PN-20. I hiked with it through the woods and through Central Park in New York City. I liked that it was packaged with Topo 7 (which has some great maps), a 1 GB SD disk and a real, printed manual. But after a couple of weeks, it’s truly a disappointment. I prefer my Garmin that is 4 years old.
Topo 7 is powerful software. It does a lot. The 3D features are fun. And the maps you can download are great (but they can get expensive). But Topo7 doesn’t do anything easily. The software installed easily on my Windows XP desktop (although it wanted in install some unusual add on from an unknown company). However, it crashed twice when I tried to install in on my Vista laptop.
Simple thinks like creating routes and tracks are unnecessarily difficult and extremely confusing. I’m a computer programmer, and after a few days over the holidays of trying to create walks around my home and local parks, I made little progress. Even “enabling” it to connect to your PN-20 is no easy task. After a week, I was still unable to transfer the nifty maps purchased online to the unit. The index of the 96 page user manual has no entry for “importing”, “exporting”, or “connecting”.
I read reviews online and several mentioned it was slow in acquiring a fix from the satellites. How slow could it be? Very. I can understand the first time, but EVERY time? It seems especially slow when you’re moving. I walked from my midtown hotel in NYC to Central Park. It never got a fix. (Okay, there are a lot of tall buildings, but my car GPS gets a fix). When I finally got to Central Park, I walked for OVER A MILE, and still no fix. When I finally stopped, it finally obtained a fix, but never a WAAS signal.
Perhaps the most frustrating part of the PN 20 is its inaccuracy. It has a nice feature of letting you know how accurate the device is. NEVER did it get more accurate than +/- 100 feet, even with the clearest view of the sky. I was able to transfer my tracks from the GPS back to Topo 7, and it showed me way off the roads and trails. I wasn’t.
The final straw was Delorme’s refusal to honor their $50 rebate. After sending in receipts, UPC codes and the form, I get the following response from Delorme:
“Thank you for your recent purchase, we received your rebate in the mail this week. DeLorme set up a mail in rebate and a mutually exclusive instant rebate this past holiday season. The mail in rebate was used exclusively by retailers who carry our GPS’ in a brick and mortar retail location while the instant rebate was offered by on line retailers like Walmart.com.
DeLorme posted the mail in rebate on our website with authorized retailers listed
I apologize for any inconvenience.
Amanda S | DeLorme Sales & Service
”
I understand that the newer Delorme PN 40 is much better, but it’s more than twice as expensive as the PN 20. I’m going back to using my 4 year old Garmin with QuakeMap. It’s easier, faster and much more accurate.
Just a heads up that you can now install the geocaching plugin (Windows and Mac) so you can transfer geocaches from geocaching.com directly to your PN-20 GPS. The firmware update for additional geocaching features is still to come, but the plugin is a good start. http://www.delorme.com/geocaching/plugin/
I’ve had my PN-20 for almost 2 years, giving it occasional light use. I love the features, but have had a continual decline in performance that finally got so bad I decided to call after returning from a trip. The problem is extremely long satellite acquisition times (so long that I get a warning from the device) and a very poor battery life (under 2 hours). Service support in the first few months I had the PN-20 was great so I expected some useful help.
Unfortunately, once past the 1 year warranty period, there is no desire to help at all. They suspect the motherboard is going bad!
My options (aside from using it until it quits — not a very desireable option) are to send it back for an estimate that is almost guaranteed to be “too expensive to repair” or to buy another unit!!!
Obviously, I told them that I had lost all confidence in the product and could not own another DeLorme. Too bad, as they have great features, but who can buy a unit that has such a short life expectancy and you can’t depend on 100%. I suggest everyone avoid DeLorme Earthmate!!!!!!!!!
What battery type are you using? How old is the battery? Did they have you perform an NVM reset? Which firmware version are you using? Satellite reception issues don’t sound like a motherboard issue to me.
I prefer the rechargeables that came with the unit. When I suspected they may be going bad, I switched to new Duracell Alkalines with the same result.
They only question they had was the version (1.4…) and no other suggestions. They indicated that a newer version would not correct this problem. In fact, I spoke with a supervisor because I was unhappy and he was nearly positive it was the motherboard going bad.
I’m desperate. Do you have another suggestion?
I’d suggest all of the following:
1) Make sure your battery type is setup within the device, and matches the battery type you are using in the device. Also note that rechargeable batteries don’t last forever, so you might want to try a new battery of the type you like.
2) Version 1.4 is a little bit older now. Try the update here : http://delorme.com/support/supporttemplate.aspx?id=416
3) Perform an NVM reset : http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?p=65241#65241 Note that when you perform that type of reset, you will actually make it so that the device will take dramatically longer to find the satellites the next time you boot– seemingly the opposite of what you are trying to do. But this should help subsequent startups. When rebooting after the NVM reset, leave the device turned on, pointed up (flat as if it was on a table) with an unobstructed sky view. Prepare to wait about 30 minutes before getting a signal. Once you get a satellite fix, wait another 30 minutes before doing anything. Then shut off, turn back on, and check the time it takes to get a signal.
DeLorme should know their devices better than I do, so perhaps they have properly diagnosed a motherboard error. But I’d try the steps I’ve outlined above. I’ve talked with literally hundreds of PN owners and haven’t heard of a motherboard issue like they are saying. It is possible that is true and if that is the case is bad luck, but it doesn’t seem to be a common issue.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried the update and have now lost all functions. The unit froze at 57% and would not complete. I had to shut everything down and of course, nothing works at all now. The screen is white and I get 3 warning tones everytime I insert the batteries, but nothing else. It sure does look like a hardware malfunction to me, motherboard or otherwise. I have tried e-mail to Tech Support, but my guess is returning it is my only option. It’s probably a major failure, but just in case they find something minor and repairable, it’s the last hope for this one….before I’m left with an expensive paperweight!
Thanks again for trying to help. You did more than Tech Support did!
Internal moisture can cause slow failure. I have two dead hand-helds and one acting up since 2004. This has nothing to do with the water proof claim.
In my case, driving from warm high-humidity sea level to 4100′ elevation in about forty minutes, with the associated drop in temperature/humidity/pressure, causes condensation on the inner face of the lens if it is not at or near the exterior temperature when taken out of the car.
If this might affect you, I have some helpful suggestions…just holler.
Thanks also for your suggestions. I appreciate the condensation idea, but as you can see from my previous post, it looks like something major.
I do routinely go from warm and moist indoors to cold and dry outdoors as most people, so it’s worth caution.
I’ll post again if I learn something that may help others.
You are welcome, Bob.
FWIW, I took the 2nd one apart and the thinly protected (unproteced perhaps?)internal circuitry had green build up that looked like corrosion, and some swelling from the build up. First indication was very short battery life. Then more frequent random problems until failure.
UPDATE: E-mail Tech Support suggested that my USB cable may be bad and sent me a replacement. With it, the update was a breeze and my unit now functions again! In fact, the satellite acquisition was fairly rapid, even after having used it over 100 miles away the last time. At any rate, it is now functional and for that I am grateful. Whether I have adequate battery life or not is the remaining question, but so far, things have improved markedly and I am regaining my confidence in using it in the field.
I will report in another post on battery life if things are any different.
Thanks to all who tried to help!
When I tried the PN20, I found it hard to use, so I gave up. Has anyone tried the new PN40?
My old Garnin gave up the ghost last year during a trip to New England. Specifically, it died in Portland, Maine. Since Delorem was just up the road, I headed up there and bought the PN20. I liked the maps, but hated the speed. I mean I really hated the speed. I also liked the support (I have about 6-8 posts in the July-Oct time frame). My car was broken into two months ago and they PN20 was taken, so I bought the PN40. All of the disadvantages of the PN20 were fixed (in my opinion) with the PN40. In nearly 20 years of GPS use, I have used close to ten different GPSr and I am pretty happy with the PN40.
I bought a PN-20 some time ago. After moving to a location, the PN-20 would drift around – as much as 1500 feet around the stopping point. Delorme said this was GPS drift and was NORMAL. I sent the unit to them and it was returned in the same condition. How can a location be within plus or minus 1500 feet and be useful for anything? Delorme had no interest in anything beyond getting their pay.
I later purchased a Garmin that has worked as expected. I have to agree, the PN-20 is a useless and expensive paper weight.
Jim
I couldn’t agree more… the PN 20 is VERY inaccurate. I’m back t my old garmin. And the time it takes to get a signal is unreal. My TOM TOM gets one immediately… but the Delorme doesn’t. Even in Central Park in New York! With errors and delays, I’m not sure why anyone would buy this, unless they want to take advantage of their return policy!
Well I disagree, I find mine is very accurate, down to 3 feet. I never had it off more than 20 feet. I would like to get the 40 someday, but I am very happy with the PN 20.
Greg, (# 400), I suspect you’re right. I too would be tempted to the PN-40. I have had two previous Delorme GPS receivers (and an earlier Rand-MdNally). All of them worked well. Each newer model was better. I think the PN-20 may well be a good unit but I got a defective one. The problem is that Delorme chose to ignore the problem and leave me “out in the cold”. They would not make good on it.
I read about uses of GPS (such as farmers determining where to place fertilizer and people locating their kids with GPS units. Also finding stolen cars with it. They’ve got to be better than the PN-20 Delorme furnished to me.
With that, I am off Delorme for good.
Jim Wilson
Tim,
Awesome site! I have only read thru the 1st 200 posts tonight. My question might have already been answered, as there are a lot of references to other maps already, just nothing concrete. OR it may be answered in the last 200 posts. Which I will read over the next few says.
I recieved the PN-20 as a gift from my parents.
I own the National Geographic New England USGS CD set, and my dad owns the Maptech NOAA CD set.
Before I open the CDs and render the unit as un-returnable.
I have just one question:
Can I use those maps (and routes I have created on those maps) on the PN-20? Without extra fees/licenses, etc?
To use a map on the PN-20 or PN-40, it must be in DeLorme’s map format. The Nat Geo maps and the MapTech maps are not in DeLorme’s map format– so they would not work. There are techniques using DeLorme’s XMap software ($99 for PN-owners) that can take certain image formats, image-reg them, and then create them in DeLorme’s format. But since you can get a map library subscription from DeLorme for $29/yr that gets you their topo maps, USGS topo maps, and NOAA charts and just download them in DeLorme’s format, it just wouldn’t make sense to use what you have.
As to routes you have created in those software packages, I can’t say with 100% certainty, but generally those types of programs will allow you to export routes in any of a set of common formats like GPX, which then could be imported into DeLorme’s Topo USA program (included with the PN-devices) and then sent to the GPS.
I’m planning to purchase a PN-20 unit with the help of my friend who currently resides in the states, I live in Indonesia. I have a dumb question, will I be able to use this unit in Indonesia if I purchase the unit in the US? Do I need to download any firmware, update the software or whatever?
Apologize if similar questions have been asked.
thanks…….
The device will work there from the perspective of being able to calculate your position, but keep in mind DeLorme doesn’t have any maps of that area which will limit the usefulness of the device over there.
where can I donwload maps from Argentina to my pn20?????
Tim–have been following this site for a year since my purchase..need to use the unit this summer for a 3,000 mile backpack on the continental divide…have loaded all the Topo 7 strip maps. My question is…on each of the 300 or so paper maps I’m using there is a compass rose with a set of coordinates. Can I type in those coordinates as needed from the field after guessing a waypoint on a map pan and using the waypoint edit function. And more important, will that edited waypoint stand up to a route find if needed. Thanks. rd
Ron– If I’m understanding your question properly the answer is yes.
Looks like we are about to see a DeLorme PN-30.
What GPS do you recommend for marine use on the Great Lakes including Lake Michigan and the North Channel of Lake Huron in Ontario as well as for traffic navigation. USA and Canada is needed including NOAA charts.
Thank you
Hello, I’ve had lots of trouble with my new PN-20 (yes should have bought a PN-40). It is very buggy and it’s hard to know where to begin as I’ve had lots of trouble with every aspect of it’s operation. If this unit did all that they said it would, it would be a great device. But I have not had much luck. I have learned a few things: Don’t use Windows Vista with it. XP works better especially for firmware updates and many other operations. Use SD cards and not the high capacity SDHC cards. Yes I know the manual says they both work. I have emailed support, with very little help. They often do not reply at all. Sometimes they’ll say they didn’t get an email or they lost it (weird). They do not answer many of my questions but say call us at support, which isn’t much fun either. Expect to wait a long time listening to music. When you get someone (finally), they might be able to resolve one of the issues on your list but they often give up and say send in your unit for repair. I will probably do that at the end of the Summer but it’s not convenient for me now. I’ve tried reloading the firmware, which kinda helped for a while but the problems return soon. I’ve bragged about it’s features to my hiking friends, and when I try to show them, the PN-20 fails every time. There goes my rep (ha). Funny thing about it, sometimes it works and I have fun using it. And than it’s back to the multiple problems. What do you think? Thanks Richard
Richard…
I feel your pain. I also had very back luck with the PN-20 and after they refused to honor a $50 rebate, the technician said if worse came to worse, I could always take advantage of their full money back guarantee…which is exactly what I did.
Returning was the only way to solve all the problems with the unit.
Good luck. I’m back using my 6 year old Garmin that I like much better.
Hello Lance, I might try that after the hiking season is over here in Idaho (which is almost never). I’m kinda into this thing waist deep. I have the map subscription and have downloaded many maps. Unfortunately I often can’t use them because they don’t often download to the correct folder (yes I checked the PN-20 check box). In Delorme Doc there is “Mobile Maps” (the correct folder) and “Downloads” (the incorrect folder and wrong format for your PN-20). This is very weird and yet another bug. They told me I that since I have already got the maps on my computer, I can “re-cut them and use them in my PN-20. That’s doable but a lot more work. They have also offered to re-send the maps to me but that’s a lot of work on my side to figure out all of the maps that don’t work (and there are a lot of them). I wish I knew more about the file types and their applications. For Example, there’s “PM0,YBR, in Mobile Maps. The maps get split up into these 2 files on download. Do you need both of these files loaded into the PN-20? Than there’s the “Downloads” folder which has the “ADC, DAT, IND, DATACOVERAGE, V, VI, TDS” file types. All of these files are unusable in your PN-20. They are the ones you need to “re-cut”. As you can see it’s endless! You might have done the best thing. Thanks for your reply, Richard
After all the difficulties that I posted here, I had a complete failure during a firmware update. I called again and this time got satisfaction. They gave me a return authorization on a 2 plus year old unit, repaired it and sent it back in a matter of days. Now the unit works much better and I am holding my breath. I can only hope that it continues to operate without difficulty. I have to retract my comnplaints about their customer service. They went beyond the warranty to help me out.
Thanks Bob, yes I’m glad to hear it. Yes I think they are trying. This is one of those high tech nightmares. The engineers design a product and release it (the PN-20) before it is finished. The customers use the product and have lots of problems. The customers (us) help them find all of the bugs with great difficulty and inconvenience to the customer and the engineers. The engineers fix some of the problems and offer firmware updates. The problem with the PN-20 and as far as I can tell the Topo USA 8.0 program too, is they have many more problems than they can handle. This is the “Microsoft” model, and it’s very frustrating to the users (it helps if your a monopoly, the customers have no where to go). Enter the PN-40. Did they fix the problems with the PN-20 and call it a PN-40? I wonder if that’s true, any PN-40 users out there? I’m afraid to upgrade because of my PN-20 problems and the expense. I offered to trade in my new PN-20 for a PN-40 plus some money but the tech guy said I would need to talk to customer service (another wait on a phone cue listening to music). It’s amazing how much time I have wasted, trying to solve these problems (ugh). Thanks for your comments Bob, Richard
I bought the PN-20 and returned it. My experience is noted in comment 204 from a couple years ago. Late last year, I bought the PN-40. Although, in my experience, the battery life is not as advertised, it’s a much better unit than the PN-20. I bought a couple 16 GB SDHC cards and the $29.95 annual map subscription. I love the maps and aerial photography that I can load for my many hiking expeditions–that and the reasonably priced annual subscription tilted me toward the PN-20 over the Garmin.
Having that detail was very useful last week as I hiked a very poorly marked trail on an extremely hot day in the Wichita Mountains with three grandchildren, aged 3, 5, and 12. The detail was able to keep us on track and avoid a turn on trail junction that looked right, but was in fact, wrong.
I do wish DeLorme’s software was more user friendly. Every time I try to download additional USGS quads or satellite photography, I hit a few dead ends before I refigure out their extremely unintuitive system. Since USGS quads, satellite photos, and DeLorme’s own software each have different limits on how much area can be clipped at a time to install in the unit, it’s easy to end up selecting the same area twice to upload. I hope DeLorme will add a function to their software to delete redundant map info to save card space.
In my comment above, at the end of the first paragraph, I stated “that and the reasonably priced annual subscription tilted me toward the PN-20 over the Garmin.” I should have said “tilted me toward the PN-40 over the Garmin.” I now have a PN-40, not a PN-20. Perhaps the moderator can correct my typo so that this correction post is unnecessary.
Yes I wish I had bought a PN-40. I think the released the PN-20 before it was properly tested and working well. All of us who bought the PN-20 helped them design the PN-40. I wonder if they would let me trade my PN-20 for a PN-40 plus a little cash? Has anyone out there done that? Still stumbiln with my PN-20, thanks for your comments, Richard
Yes I wish I had bought a PN-40. I think they released the PN-20 before it was properly tested and working well. All of us who bought the PN-20 helped them design the PN-40. I wonder if they would let me trade my PN-20 for a PN-40 plus a little cash? Has anyone out there done that? Still stumbiln with my PN-20, thanks for your comments, Richard
Hello
A problem has developed with my two year old PN20 recently. The odometer will suddenly record extra mileage. Some times it is 25 miles, other times it will be over a 100 miles. One minute the odometer will read, for example, 8 miles and the next instant read 100 miles. This can happen under a clear sky or under tree cover and with fresh batteries. I’m wondering if this is what they all do and if there is a software fix available? I am very reluctant to go on serious hikes with this unit.
ruko
I recently saw the Delorme PN-20 in a catalog & according to the catalog Topo USA 7.0 is already installed in it rather than the 6.0. I have ordered it & should recieve it in a week or so. I’m looking forward to using it & seeing just how easy it is for a tech dummy like me. LOL
We are looking to get a GPS unit for geocaching and found your reviews of the PN-20 unit. We are also looking at the Garmin GPS 60-R. Both are factory serviced or refurbished units with comparable pricing.
We also have developed a liking for hiking as well.
Which unit do you think would fit our needs? Frankly, I am tired of reading reviews and want to make a choice soon.
Thank you
I purchased an Earthmate GPS PN-20 because of all the extras that came with it along with the excellent reviews it had posted at other web sites.To my dis-appointment I find that Delorme does not offer Topo maps for inland lakes.The only reason I wanted a GPS was for navigating lake Eufaula in eastern oklahoma.Looks like I waisted my money on this one.
I’m not certain what you mean. Topo maps provide elevation (contour lines) of land features. Since bodies of water are (mostly) flat then there is no data to show topographically. If you mean lake depth charts, then yes– the PN-20 doesn’t show lake depth charts. The PN-30 and PN-40 are compatible with Navionics lake depth charts which you can purchase as an accessory.
Like I said I waisted my money.I only wanted the unit to find under water hazords. my friend has a lowrance that shows bridges and other structures under water. The PN-20 clearly will never do that
Recently wife and I rode our bicycles through Itasca state park on the very scenic bicycle trails that exist in the park. The trails venture through tall pines and somewhat dense forest canopy. I have the PN20 mounted on my bike and my wife has a Garmin Etrex Venture on her bike. To my surprise the Etrex continued to work whereas the PN20 lost signal many, many times during the ride. When you consider the price difference between these two units this is very difficult to understand.